Ron Sandison shares his story of growing up on the autism spectrum and offers encouragement for those navigating life with autism. Leaning on Jesus, and with the support of his family, Ron has built a fulfilling and purposeful life. Now, as an author, professor, husband, and father, Ron provides insight to parents raising children with autism, spreading the important message that all children can flourish and mature through the love of their families and the love of Jesus.
Ron Sandison shares his story of growing up on the autism spectrum and offers encouragement for those navigating life with autism. Leaning on Jesus, and with the support of his family, Ron has built a fulfilling and purposeful life. Now, as an author, professor, husband, and father, Ron provides insight to parents raising children with autism, spreading the important message that all children can flourish and mature through the love of their families and the love of Jesus.
Ron works full time in the medical field and is a professor of theology at Destiny School of Ministry. He also has a Master of Divinity from Oral Roberts University and has memorized over 15,000 scriptures, including 22 complete books from the New Testament.
Purchase one of Ron’s books:
A Parent's Guide to Autism: Practical Advice. Biblical Wisdom.
All children can flourish and mature through love. A Parent’s Guide to Autism offers interviews from experts and teaching on helping children respond to bullying, as well as practical wisdom, biblical knowledge, and life experiences from Ron Sandison.
Views from the Spectrum: A Window into Life and Faith with Your Neurodivergent Child
Views from the Spectrum is a celebration of autism, faith, and the possibilities at their intersection. Providing guidance for parents longing to connect their children with God's love, this book is complete with anecdotes, scientific research, parenting tips, prayers, devotions, and more.
KEY QUESTIONS:
Do you seek to understand others before seeking to be understood by them?
What do children need to grow into faithful, healthy adults?
How can you offer encouragement to an individual or family living with autism?
KEY SCRIPTURE:
Genesis 50:19–21: “But Joseph said to them, ‘Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your children.’ And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them.”
Crystal Keating:
This is the Joni and Friends Ministry Podcast and I’m your host Crystal Keating. Each week we’re bringing you encouraging conversations about finding hope through hardship and practical ways that you can include people living with disability in your church and community. As you listen, visit joniandfriends.org/podcast to access the resources we mention, or to send me a message with your thoughts.
Stephanie Daniels:
Ron Sandison joins the podcast today to share his story of growing up on the autism spectrum and give us insight in how his relationship with Christ and his mother's perseverance changed his life.
Ron works full time in the medical field and is a professor of theology at Destiny School of Ministry. He also has a Master of Divinity from Oral Roberts University and is the author of "A Parent's Guide to Autism: Practical Advice. Biblical Wisdom." As well as, "Views from the Spectrum." Ron has memorized over 15,000 scriptures, including 22 complete books at the New Testament. And most importantly, Ron is a husband to his wife, Kristen, and a father to their daughter, Mikayla. Welcome to the podcast, Ron.
Ron Sandison:
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
Stephanie Daniels:
We're so glad you're here today. Ron, would you take us back to your early childhood, when you were diagnosed with autism?
Ron Sandison:
Yeah, so my development began normal. I said my first word, "Mommy," at nine months. And what I like to say, I said my first word, “Mommy,” the day I was being water baptized, and any child who thinks they're being drowned is going to cry out, "Mommy, Mommy." And then at 18 months, I went from being able to say, "Mommy" to only, " Mum."
25 percent of people with autism go through a time of regression, as I went through. And my mom, being a great mom, immediately took me to a pediatrician. She knew that time was the essence. She immediately got me in intense speech therapy. I was in intense speech therapy all the way from age 2 to age 16.
At age 7, when I entered kindergarten, that's when the school experts wanted to diagnose me as emotionally impaired and my mom said, "It's not emotional, it's neurological." And if you can't tell me what's going on in my son's head, I'll get him tested and come back to you in the fall and tell you exactly what it is.
She took me to Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit and in 1982, at age 7, I was diagnosed with autism. When I was diagnosed at the time, it was one in every 10,000 children. Now it's one in every 36 children.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mmm.
Ron Sandison:
Then those same school experts said, "If your son has autism, he'll never read beyond the 7th grade level, never attend college, never have meaningful relationships, never excel in sports." And my mom was determined to prove them wrong. She was an art teacher, quit her job and became a full time RON teacher.
By the grace of God, and her being led by the Holy Spirit and listening to the call on my life from God, I was able to graduate, as you mentioned, from Oral Roberts University with a Master Divinity. Also, a perfect four point grade point average. I've gone on to translate two thirds of the New Testament from Greek into English. I'm a Assemblies of God licensed minister. And then I got married a decade ago on December 7th, I became a dad March 20th. My daughter just turned eight in March, and she was born at 3:13 a.m.
Crystal Keating:
Well Ron, you're so delightful and it's so fun talking to you. At some point in this conversation, I have to hear how you met your wife, but we're going to get to that. In my study of you and listening to your YouTube clips and your videos and reviewing some of the things that you've written, you talk about not curing autism, but refining autism. I thought that was a really good juxtaposition.
So, if you can maybe go back when you were younger, what were some of the challenges you faced and what are the ways you've grown through difficulties? I mean, throughout all of the messages I've heard you honor your mom. She has such a huge influence on your life and what you were able to accomplish.
I think your mom did a great job of identifying the gifts that God had given you, even though others may not have initially noticed the depths of what you were created to do and be. And I just want to honor all mothers that are listening today. So, what were the struggles that you had when you were younger, and then how did you grow through those difficulties?
Ron Sandison:
So, my mom was inspired by Proverbs 22:29, "Do you see a man or a woman skilled in their labors? They will serve before kings, not obscure men." So, she knew if she could teach me to use my strength to adapt and accommodate for my limitations, I'd build connections where most people with autism, they're like 30-year-old Velcro shoes, they don't connect well. Most of life is building connections, using those connections to market our abilities and strengths, so we're able to transform our world.
Some of my big challenges were sensory issues. I had a lot of sensory issues to sight, sound, if I heard something loud, I'd have a meltdown. I remember my first meltdown was at a movie.
There's a balloon at the beginning of the movie and it got bigger and bigger, and it exploded. And when the balloon exploded, I exploded and had a meltdown in the movie theater. My mom's running, jumping through the aisles, trying to go under the seats to catch me. I was a very small child at the time. It took an hour for her to catch me. And what she did after that is she didn't quit taking me to movies, she kept taking me. She knew that exposure to environments would make me able to adapt to that environment.
And with autism, we imitate what we see. That's why an inclusive environment for autism is way more important than a room to the side with other people with special needs, because then we'll imitate those other special needs. But if we have a peer who we can work with, we have a mentor, then we can refine those gifts into beautiful talents. My mom believed in "autism refined, not cured."
Autism unrefined for me was little ability to filter what I say. A thought that came in, I spewed out. Like walking on the hot black pavement to the ocean and stepping on glass. It's jagged, it's rough. There were a lot of rough moments in my life, and a lot of challenges, bullying, and other things I experienced. But autism refined looks like this, you're off that hot black pavement, you're walking along the ocean, you're feeling the breeze, and you feel something good, you pick it up, it's a piece of glass refined by something greater. It's refined by the grace of God. Learning speech therapy. Connecting with good connections, making friends. And that piece of glass now, it's on your neck as jewelry. It's on your wall as art.
And that's what my mom was determined to do with me. She prayed, "God, show me how my son neurologically processes information." And she realized that I don't process any phonetic ability. That's why I'm able to quote word perfect, 15,000 Bible verses, 22 books in New Testament, because I'm a visual learner. And when I see the Bible, hear the Bible, study a Bible, I memorized the Bible and able to quote it.
It wasn't until Temple Grandin came and said that 80 percent of people with autism are visual learners.
Crystal Keating:
That's amazing. You know, Temple Grandin is a really important person, I think, in the autism world. And so, for our listeners who may not be familiar with her story, can you give a little snapshot of that?
Ron Sandison:
Yes. I've been able to present with Temple Grandin three times, twice in person. And she's a cattle lady. She had, severe autism. She was nonverbal until about age four or five. And she's a professor at the University of Colorado. She actually just retired a few months ago and for her retirement party, they had me go out there and present with her.
Crystal Keating:
Oh, that's so neat.
Ron Sandison:
And about four or five other people. What her real gift is visual and engineering. She's able to see a problem in her mind and come up with solutions that other people can't.
In all McDonald’s, Burger King, even Wendy’s uses her cattle chute for processing cattle. So, she's very important in the animal community.
Crystal Keating:
That's awesome. Well, you know, you said something really interesting as we were talking, and you talked about having a meltdown in the theater. How would you describe the differences between a meltdown and a rebellious tantrum?
Ron Sandison:
Yeah, so a tantrum is, "I'm gonna behave bad so I get what I want." A meltdown is total loss of control, being unable to speak, unable to say anything, your brain goes dull, and you're unable to understand your environment. It's a total shutdown and over overwhelming feeling.
I had many meltdowns during my time with autism. And even as an adult, I've had situations where I've almost had meltdowns, where something is done not right and I'm overwhelmed to the place where I can't even think.
Crystal Keating:
That's a great distinction.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Ron, can you tell us what are the roots? Autism. What does the word actually mean? And what are some of the misconceptions of people living with autism?
Ron Sandison:
So, the word "Autism" comes from a Koine Greek or Biblical Greek word, "Autos" means "Self" and it's self-absorbed. It's a person who's in their own little world.
Some of the misconceptions of autism, I think, is someone non-verbal, may not have the same mental capacity as someone else. And a great example of this is Kimberly Dixon, who in my book, "Views from the Spectrum: A Window into Life and Faith from a Neurodivergent Child," was non-verbal and had amazing gifts and amazing ability to write poetry on God's grace, poetry about the cross, painted butterfly on the resurrection and how in Christ, when we're raised to newness of life in him, we transform our world.
So, I think the main misconception is that people non-verbal don't have the same gifts and talents as someone else. I think another one is that, people with autism don't desire friendships because they sometimes seem isolated. They desire friendships, they desire relationships, but they don't know how to connect. They haven't learned how to adapt and they haven't learned the social clues that cause us to adapt and be able to make friendships.
And it's really called, "the ability to delight." And that's one of the things I've learned. And after learning how to delight, I've spoken live to over 250,000 people. Since 2015, met over a hundred celebrities, but a lot of it comes down to knowing how connections work, marketing your gifts, and be able to delight and help people out so they see those gifts, those talents, and what God's placed in you, and they want those gifts from God.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that you keep emphasizing connect with people to see the giftings that God places in all of us. So, according to the CDC, statistics now say that 1 in 36 children will be born with autism. Additionally, according to the National Autism Association, a study found that nearly 40 percent of those children may not speak. So how did you go from only saying "Mum" to being as verbal as you are today?
Ron Sandison:
So, one was my mom used my gifts and strengths. She knew that I wouldn't learn anything phonetically. If I heard "burr" or "ball" sounded the same. So what she did is she used art. She had me draw art, she'd have me tell a story, and then she'd write down the story. Then she'd have me rewrite the story, and I went from having dyslexia to no dyslexia. I still got dysgraphia, so I can pass for any doctor with my bad handwriting in the United States.
Stephanie Daniels:
That is incredible. And I just want to applaud your mom. And like you said, Crystal, encourage the parents out there. Just keep at it. Keep encouraging your kids and lean into how they learn. I love that your mom was so persistent in helping to refine who you are. So that's so beautiful.
Crystal Keating:
Yeah. And Ron, I really want to go back to something you said. I've never heard this before, but the "ability to delight." What does that mean? That's a new concept to me.
Ron Sandison:
So, the ability to delight is this, is when I meet people, I find out what their interest is, and I speak in their interest. So I first seek to understand, then be understood.
Here's an example. I know someone went to a certain college and their mascot is a certain animal. So, when I send them an email, if I met that mascot before I send a picture of that mascot. Or I know they like a certain wrestler, I send them a video with me with that wrestler. So, I'm able to delight them by knowing what their interest is and speak in the area of their interest and build a connection.
A lot of life is building connections. When I was in college I had a roommate, and this was before I learned the ability to delight. His name was Joel Marion, and he kept saying this "I'm going to win Body for Life." He was from New Jersey, so he said it like this, "I'm going to win Body for Life!" And the guy was huge. Six foot three...
Crystal Keating:
Was he a bodybuilder?
Ron Sandison:
Yeah. 230 pounds.
Stephanie Daniels:
"Body for Life."
Crystal Keating:
Okay. For, okay. What is that?
Stephanie Daniels:
That was the workout program, right?
Ron Sandison:
Yeah. So, he kept telling me he was going to win it, and I was negative. So, I didn't use the ability to delight and say, you know, "I believe in you. You're a big guy. You're going to win it." Instead, I said this. "There's no way you're going to win Body for Life. You're competing with thousands of people." The grand prize is $20,000, which then was a huge amount. You get to go to Hawaii if you win. You're on the cover of a book. He dropped out of ORU, and I get an email. And guess what? He won Body for Life.
Crystal Keating:
No way!
Ron Sandison:
And the story doesn't end there. I tell this story over and over again about the ability to delight. And one day someone comes up to me, "Well, whatever happened to Joel Marion?" I said, "I have no clue." They said, "Why don't you Google?" I Google his name, turns out he's the founder of BioTrust Nutrients. He sells more nutrients online than anyone in the world. The guy's now worth 500 million dollars.
And yet for one whole year, I slept in that small dorm room, and he was my roommate. No more than a foot from someone who's now worth 500 million dollars. But it shows you that I had no ability to delight and no ability to connect. I've learned since then that the most important resource, the only thing we bring into heaven, in fact, for what is our hope or our joy, our crown and the presence of the Lord, is it not you? It's you. It's the people around you. And I've learned how to do that and to pause and think this is someone great in the kingdom of God. And you know who the greatest are? It's not the people worth the 500 million. It's that person with a disability bagging groceries. It's a person who we see, and we overlook because those are the people we do things for, we do them for Jesus. I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and gave me something to drink. I was strange and you invited me in. I needed clothes, and you clothed me, I was sick and in prison, you visit me. What we do for the least of these, we do for Jesus. He's the water of life the Holy Spirit can change your life.
Crystal Keating:
Wow, that is so, so powerful, oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing. Okay, you're a pastor. And, you've memorized all these wonderful scriptures. They're just like pouring out of your heart. I would love to hear how you felt the call on your life toward ministry and how you became a pastor.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah, that's a good one.
Ron Sandison:
So, coming into high school, I fell away from God. I started drinking, I started smoking weed, smoking cigarettes, and I felt far from God. And I still ran track, and I was still a good runner my first two years of track.
Then my junior year, a girl came up to me and said, "God's doing awesome things in our Wednesday night service, would you like to come and join us?" So I went, I heard the message, it spoke to my heart, and I gave my life to Jesus. The minute I gave my life to Jesus, I made him Lord and Savior. And as I committed my life to him, God blessed my track season. In fact, it came down to one foot. My junior year, our anchor finished one foot ahead of the other runner and we made it to state finals. And then I knew that God called me to be a runner and use my running for his glory.
Coming in my senior year. I was three months past the age limit to compete in high school sports. And it took a miracle from God to be able to run on the track team. In fact, no one in the past 20 years had competed past an age limit in any sport in the United States.
God spoke to me my junior year when we made it to state finals. Our anchor, the one who got us in there, said, next year will be the fastest relay in the state of Michigan, but we won't have Ron on the relay team. Right then the Holy Spirit spoke to me as clear as I'm speaking today and said, “I'll provide a way for you to run on the track team.” I said, God's going to provide a way.
I got water baptized to show my commitment to Christ. And when I came out of the water, the minister looked at me and he said this, Joel 2:25, I saw it above you. I repaid the years the locusts have eaten, the great locust, the young locust, the other locust, the locust swarm - my great army that I sent among you. There was an army of locusts where your disability that ate away and God's repaying it today.
When I checked my answering machine that day, I pressed the button, 9 o'clock, the time I came out of the water, appeared on the answering machine. And it began this way. "Hi, my name's Rick Landell. I'm a young lawyer. I got my PhD from Boston College, my law degree from the University of Michigan, and I want to take your case pro bono. All I need is your signature."
He signed on, took our case. He saw an article in the news about me, and that's what made him want to take the case, when he knew that our civil rights were being violated. The reason he became a lawyer is because his parents were in a concentration camp, and he never wanted to see people's civil rights violated.
Crystal Keating:
Wow.
Ron Sandison:
He wanted to stand up for people's civil rights. So even in evil, God turns it out to be good. Genesis 50:19.
Crystal Keating:
Amen.
Ron Sandison:
He took on the case. We won. We end up changing the way sports is done in the United States for people with disabilities. Now people over the age limit, if it's not contact sport, are able to compete.
Crystal Keating:
That's incredible. Your case changed the trajectory that's awesome.
Well, I really want to be able to continue to speak life and hope into those who are listening today, and have loved ones with autism who communicate non-verbally. I mean, just even that scripture, Joel 2:25, about God really redeeming the years that were lost. And I think that's such a theme in the scriptures. So, back to parents who have children with autism who communicate non-verbally, how can we help to better understand those who aren't communicating using spoken words.
Ron Sandison:
There's no speech or language where his voice is not heard. They have ways of communicating. Sometimes they can write, sometimes they can type. But in there, there's still the love of God.
You see a non-verbal child hug a parent. That's communication. It's communicating I love them. You see a non-verbal child, how they interact and show love to someone else, maybe offering to share a snack. That's communication of the love of God. John 13:35 says, "By this all men will know you're my disciples, if you love one another." And I also say this, delay is not denial.
Crystal Keating:
Mmm.
Ron Sandison:
When I was 30 years old, my grandpa said to my mom, "Life has a way of overlooking some people like Ron." It was before I met my wife, before I had traditionally published books, I was working a dead-end job. And my mom says this, "Ron's time for God has just not arrived. If only you could see it."
My grandpa and grandma were famous murder mystery writers, and they did all kinds of plays. Something interesting happened a year after my grandpa died. My first book was published, "Parents Guide to Autism: Practical Advice. Biblical Wisdom." I was speaking all over the country. And many of the places where my grandparents did their plays I would speak and have a bigger audience.
And my mom said, if only grandpa could see that delay isn't denial. Even with non-verbals, it's a delay because when we get to heaven, these jars of clay will show the all surpassing power of God, and we'll be singing with the angels, singing with the saints, and the non-verbal, they'll be singing with the Saints. So, a delay doesn't mean a denial.
Crystal Keating:
Ron, I think that's something that we need to hear over and over again, no matter what season we're in, whether we have a child who is not verbally communicating, or used to and doesn't anymore, or we're in a season of suffering, or we're in a season of caregiving, or we're in a hard relationship or infertility, whatever it is, to be reminded that God has not forgotten.
I mean, you quoted Genesis 50:19 right? Isn't that the story of Joseph, where he was forgotten by this guy and forgotten by this guy. And you just think like, "God, where are you?" He had all these years in Egypt where he was preparing for what? I have suffered these things so that many would be saved, right? We're part of this bigger picture of, maybe you had this gap in your life where, you had turned away from God and then when you did turn back, there was this season of blessing, and then God started giving you favor and giving you a voice. And I know, Ron, you're not just speaking for you, you're speaking for the greater community. You're helping us understand, autism in general. And I just think that's God's way, right?
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Crystal Keating:
So... What an encouraging word.
Stephanie Daniels:
Such a blessing. Sorry, can we just hear, though, how Ron met his wife? Because he alluded to that just a little bit ago, and inquiring minds want to know.
Ron Sandison:
So, I met my wife on "Plenty of Fish." I ended up dating about 300 women. Learning about social skills.
Crystal Keating:
Did you say 300?
Ron Sandison:
Yeah, before I met my wife.
Crystal Keating:
Okay, were these like, you talked to 300, called them on the phone, or you actually went on 300 dates? You met them?
Ron Sandison:
At least one date, and it was over about a six-year period of time. Wow!
Crystal Keating:
Oh my gosh! Good for you!
Ron Sandison:
Yes, Charles Spurgeon said it best, "By perseverance, a snail made on the ark." So, I persevered and made it on that ark. And it took learning skills, like be interested, not hovering.
Crystal Keating:
Yes, hovering is not good. That’s so uncomfortable.
Ron Sandison:
Yeah, I had to learn a lot of skills, and it took time. And I had to learn to filter what I'd say.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow, that is so cool.
Crystal Keating:
Okay, this is really interesting because there's a couple of shows right now, right? "Love on the Spectrum" that are pretty popular and they kind of show the love life of people with autism. Okay, I don't want to totally land here, but I think it's really fascinating that you went on 300 dates in six years. Did you get feedback from women? How did you figure out? "Okay, hovering is not a good thing, but showing interest is good." Or, "I don't need to say everything that I think about, I can filter what I..." Like, these are just life skills in general whether you have autism or not, you know, right? So, like how did you figure this out?
Ron Sandison:
Two things. Exposure and what's the other one? Mentor. I had a friend, Matt, he'd help me mentor with dating. He met his wife on "Plenty of Fish" and he worked with me.
Here's a funny story. So, I get an email from a girl. It's about three pages long. He goes, you get a good email. This is a good letter from her, but she'll never go out with you. I said, how do you know? He said, well, when I was on "Plenty of Fish," she sent me three pages of good information and good letters and she never would call me after I called her.
Then there's one, he goes, you're gonna get two dates but not a third one. And I said, how do you know? He goes, I went out with her. Sure enough, we went out twice and there was no third date. And he said this, it's them, not you. So, it made me learn not to take to heart when someone was cruel or mean. And he said, when the right one comes along, it's not like walking on eggshells. Everything falls into place. God's grace is there.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Ron Sandison:
And then, that's how it was with my wife. As we started dating, everything just fell into place. And we got married and we've been married now 10 years. It'll be 11 years December 7th, and God's grace has been there. Try and struggle, that's when it falls apart a lot of times.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow. Okay. So, this is not a plug for anyone to get on "Plenty of Fish," but if you hear the Lord speaking, obey the call. That's incredible, Ron. Thank you for sharing that with us.
"Autism makes me different, not less." This is a well-known quote from Temple Grandin that you've taken to heart and at Joni and Friends, we are always encouraging one another in our churches to continue to expand our reach so that the message of Jesus can be embraced and understood by everyone.
So, how can we as Christians better live by faith and not by sight, seeing people for who they could be rather than focusing on some of the challenging parts of life that can create barriers to rich relationships and a deeper love?
Ron Sandison:
So, any fool can see an apple on a tree, but it takes vision, dedication to see that orchard in the apple seed. 1 Corinthians sums it up best, "Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. The greatest of these is love." So, you need faith to see their future. You need hope to know that God has the power to do amazing things. And then you need love, to love them the way they are, and see God bring the transformation.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes. This has just been a really rich conversation with you today, Ron. And I am challenged not to judge a book by its cover, but to get to know people and love them and see them as Jesus sees them.
I'm so thankful to just hear some of your story today and the thread of perseverance that has just been evident in so much that you've shared. You are delightful. I'm so thankful that we've had this, time together today.
Ron Sandison:
Thanks so much.
Crystal Keating:
Thank you for listening today. For more episodes, find us wherever you get your podcast and be sure to subscribe. We’d also love it if you would tell a friend. And for more encouragement, follow Joni and Friends on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube. And visit our website at joniandfriends.org/podcast. Thank you for listening to the Joni and Friends Ministry Podcast.