How do you help someone who is grieving? Or, if you’re experiencing grief yourself, what do wish others knew about what helps—and what just makes things worse? Poet Emily Curtis joins Stephanie Daniels to talk about bringing hope to those who are grieving. Be inspired by Emily’s biblical insight and heartfelt encouragement for facing grief.
How do you help someone who is grieving? Or, if you’re experiencing grief yourself, what do wish others knew about what helps—and what just makes things worse? Poet Emily Curtis joins Stephanie Daniels to talk about bringing hope to those who are grieving. inspire you with biblical insight and heartfelt encouragement for facing grief.
Emily is the compiler and author of the bestselling book Hope in the Mourning. Featuring real life testimonies and a foreword by Joni Eareckson Tada, this book offers hope to the hurting heart and will equip you to confidently minister to the grieving. Learn what to say, what not to say, and how to effectively serve those in the deepest, darkest valleys.
Emily Curtis lives in North Carolina with her husband, Brent, and their four children, Micah, Avia, Malachi, and Alayah. She has a passion for ministering to hurting people and learning how to love them as Christ would. She serves at Twin City Bible Church in the nursery and music ministries. She enjoys homeschooling, writing poetry, singing, and playing piano.
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Crystal Keating: This is the Joni and Friends Ministry Podcast and I’m your host Crystal Keating. Each week we’re bringing you encouraging conversations about finding hope through hardship and practical ways that you can include people living with disability in your church and community. As you listen, visit joniandfriends.org/podcast to access the resources we mention, or to send me a message with your thoughts.
Stephanie Daniels: I am Stephanie Daniels, and I'm so glad you're here with us today. Emily Curtis is a poet with a passion for bringing hope to those who are grieving. With six years of service and ministry experience with suffering people, Emily is the compiler and author of the bestselling book "Hope in the Mourning". This book rich with real life testimonies, offers hope to the hurting heart and equips every reader to confidently minister to the grieving. If you've ever wanted to learn what to say, how to serve, and what not to say to people who are walking through a time of loss, I believe this conversation with Emily today will help uplift and inspire you to see hope and minister to those who may find themselves in the darkest of life’s circumstances. Welcome to the podcast, Emily.
Emily Curtis: Thank you for having me today.
Stephanie Daniels: I just have to start off with saying you write really beautiful poems, and I want to know, how did you get started writing poetry and what led you to write a book like "Hope in the Mourning"?
Emily Curtis: Yeah, so "Hope in the Mourning" was inspired by a little company that I had years ago where I created gifts for grieving people, and out of that I learned so many people's different stories. They were very vulnerable with me and would tell me things that had been said to them that were hurtful. A lot of those things from believers, from well-intentioned believers, and the more of these stories that I heard I just thought, we as a church, we can do better. We can love each other better than this. If people could hear their stories then they would have a pathway to empathy and therefore compassion, and it would change the way that we respond. But we need to know from their perspective, from the person who's grieving, what do we say? What is actually helpful in ministry? And what is hurtful.
So that is how "Hope in the Mourning" was born. It took me three years to compile this book. I am the mother of four young kids, and I homeschool them all. So, it's a busy season of life and the Lord just faithfully paved the way. I've been so humbled and honored to see how the Lord has used this already to minister to people.
Stephanie Daniels: Wow. I just was, super blessed with reading a few of the stories and your poetry. Like I said, you've got a gift.
Emily Curtis: Thank you.
Stephanie Daniels: Okay, so, Emily, how did you get started writing poetry?
Emily Curtis: So, my parents were divorced when I was four years old. And I had a heavy heart at a very young age. When I was little, I used to write songs and write poetry, and that's kind of been part of me since I was very, very young. And it's been the way that I pour my heart out before the Lord. I'm also a singer, so, song, prose, those things are in my heart. When I have something lying heavy on my heart, that's the way that I release it. That's the way that I pour it before the Lord.
It became something that I really desired to use for ministry and to put into words, the heaviness that people feel, but bring it full circle within the poetry to show them that we're not left in our sorrow, we're not left with those heavy hearts. And just like David poured his heart out before the Lord in poetry, that's what my desire was. But also, like David, to bring it from pouring your heart out to praise and understanding who Christ is and how we can cling to him, even in our suffering.
Stephanie Daniels: I absolutely love that. You are a modern day, David. I just opened up even to, "Joy in the Morning", one of the poems that you wrote, "Although I may not remove your plight, I will go before you and help you fight." Ugh. I just think it's a reminder and, it's how the Lord is speaking to and through you.
So, grief is not just accompanied with death. There are other situations that bring about pain and loss. Like you said, your parents got divorced when you were four. How can someone who's experienced disappointment, loss of freedom, or marriage, hope deferred, or maybe a devastating diagnosis like infertility, or cancer, or Alzheimer's, be encouraged by "Hope in the Mourning"?
Emily Curtis: Yeah, you know, the stories in "Hope in the Mourning", every one of them showcases God's faithfulness and his character, no matter what the trial is. And I purposefully selected stories that really vary in their content.
So, we do have the death of children. The death of spouses. A couple who the husband experienced kidney failure in his 20s, and a woman who faced finding out that her husband had an adulterous relationship for years behind her back. She turned out to have to be his full-time caregiver after he had a stroke. And then again, there's stories in here where people got divorced, and after the divorce they came to know the Lord. They came to realize that they were not truly saved, and their marriage was restored.
The book is for anyone that desires to share the hope of Christ to suffering people, and anybody in need of hope, which is all of us. Every grief is unique, no matter what it is. So even, two people who have lost a child, they have not walked the same grief, and they haven't walked the same path. So, we also want people to see a wide gamut of God's faithfulness through every trial imaginable on this earth.
Stephanie Daniels: Since this book is a compilation of stories, are these all people that you know?
Emily Curtis: So, the majority of them are people that I have known and known for years. Many of them I knew before their trial and in the midst of their trial. So, I was able to see the depth of their faith, the authenticity of their theologies that they believed, and watch how they never lost sight of who Christ is and that's what they clung to. That's what anchored them in their storm.
Stephanie Daniels: I can agree with you in that when I've been able to watch people walk through hard seasons, and you really see him being their anchor, and how he comforts and how faithful he is, it always points me back to Jesus. So, I think It's really cool to see real life stories in this book as means of encouragement for the readers.
Emily, can I ask, what's been your personal experience with grief?
Emily Curtis: So, I would say that in my own assessment of my life, I feel like my sorrows that I have faced, are not as profound as the ones in this book. But as I mentioned, I did go through a divorce of my parents when I was four years old, and that was a pretty pivotal moment in my life. I also experienced a broken engagement when I was 20. I have had three miscarriages. And I also went through severe postpartum depression. That actually got to such a dark point that I did not think that I had a purpose here on earth anymore.
I just feel very connected with people that have gone through grief and that are suffering. That is something the Lord has put on my heart. And even going through the divorce at a young age, the Lord made it so that I'm not uncomfortable with grief. want to sit there with people and love them through that.
I believe that the Lord is very intentional with all of our experiences so that we can be used in ministering, to be his hands and feet in whatever way that he has delegated specifically for us.
Stephanie Daniels: I'm thankful that he's put this on your heart and given you a burden for that because like you said, grief, it's packaged differently for everybody, and affects people differently, and it can be scary but I'm thankful for tools like this one to help navigate. Whether it's us walking through our own season of grieving or helping a loved one walk through that space, you know, we have tools like this one to help us love on people.
Emily Curtis: Yeah, you know, I'm very humbled and honored that the Lord used me as a tool to bring this project to fruition.
Stephanie Daniels: Yeah. Well as I thumbed through the pages of your book and read some of the things that you should not say like, "God's going to use this moment in your life to help you strengthen others down the road." I realized how many of those things that I've said to people who just lost a loved one, and I never knew that a statement like that wasn't good or encouraging. Can you share some of those unhelpful statements that you've heard in your years of experience?
Emily Curtis: Yeah, and I'll just quickly say, you're not alone in that. That's exactly why I thought this book needed to be written, because every one of us have said things, again, with good intention, we mean to be a comfort, but unless you're walking in their shoes, you don't really know. So yeah, I'm going to give you a little list here of some things that people say, and, you know, more than likely your viewers can relate to at least a few of them that they have said, because I know I could.
One of the most popular things that the authors who have gone through these griefs said not to say is, "Let me know if you need anything." We've all said that, but when we say that we're putting it on them to figure out what they need. And so instead, just be intentional, offer what you can and be purposeful in what you have to offer them in that moment.
"I know just how you feel." Even if you've lost a child and they just lost a child, as I mentioned previously, you don't know just how they feel. You can say, "I'm so sorry for your loss."
"God is going to do a miracle." You don't know that. You don't know how God is going to work in this situation. And so, we don't give false uneducated hopes. You don't know if their child is going to pull through or if their cancer is going to be miraculously healed.
"You're so strong. I could never go through what you're going through." We don't have grace for an issue that we're not going through. God doesn't give us things because we're strong enough to handle them. His strength has made perfect in our weaknesses.
Saying or doing nothing is one of the worst things you can do. You know, acting as if they're suffering didn't happen simply because you were afraid that you may or may not say the wrong thing. It's better to go and intentionally say something to them, even if it's as simple as, "I'm so sorry for your loss." " I'm so sorry for your diagnosis."
Don't share every treatment plan that you've heard of when it comes to someone who's just been diagnosed with cancer, or with a long-term illness, that's not the time to do that.
Telling them, "God won't give you more than you can handle." Or, "At least your loved one is in heaven." That's not comforting in the moment, it actually diminishes their suffering in that moment.
Stephanie Daniels: As I pour through the comments we receive on our social media, a lot of people want to offer suggestions to one another. Just as you mentioned, like, "Oh, well, I've tried this." Or, "Have you considered this treatment plan?" Everybody has an opinion.
And so, can you explain why these statements are not helpful or hopeful? And how can we encourage or comfort people with words to truly offer hope in the midst of their darkness?
Emily Curtis: Yeah. Part of why they're not helpful or hopeful is because they're lacking the action behind it. Even when we say to someone, "I'm going to be praying for you." And then we forget. Instead, stop what you're doing and put your arms around them and pray with them or send them a text message that's actually a prayer, that this is what I'm praying for you today.
We also don't want to speak things to people that aren't true. As I mentioned with things like saying, God's going to do a miracle in this. We want to speak truth over our loved ones and we want to do it with gentleness, and patience, and consistency. And that's how we can come alongside people in a compassionate way, is be gentle, and be patient, and be consistent. Remind them of the character of God. You can send them hymns, sitting with them and crying with them, talking to them about their loved one. That's another thing is that a lot of people think that it is a faux pas to mention the name of a loved one who's passed away, and that's not true. Many times, they want to talk about their loved one. They want to know that they're not forgotten.
In the same way that when someone is going through a long-term illness, after a couple of months, they begin to feel like they're going to be a burden if they keep needing help, or they keep needing meals, or childcare. And it's our job as the church to carry one another's burdens and not to ever make them feel like I've got so much going on in my life that I can't handle what's going on in yours.
One of the purposes of "Hope in the Mourning" is that these stories allow the reader to really walk for a full chapter in their shoes. And it's everything from walking into that doctor's office and you're getting that diagnosis that you never thought you would hear. Or you are walking home from the funeral of your child. It's things that people are not going to just tell you about. But these authors have so vulnerably invited you into their life. And so, the hope is that these stories will awaken empathy in the reader and that the empathy will, in turn, result in compassionate actions among the reader.
Stephanie Daniels: That's something that is so needed in our world today is empathy and compassion. So that's really rich. Thank you for sharing that. And you mentioned hymns.
I know that Joni loves hymns, as do many others, and I love worship, and I think that hymns are beautiful. And you said yourself as well, you're a singer, from your perspective, Emily, why do hymns still matter and what does it practically look like to walk through grief using hymns?
Emily Curtis: Scripture is filled with timeless and precious truth and filled with truth about who our God is. And the hymns put to song what the truths of scripture say. A lot of the songs that we sing in contemporary music right now are more self-centered. And that's not how the hymns are. In fact, many of the hymns were born out of deep sorrow. These authors that penned them, they were men and women who themselves experienced great suffering, like the loss of children, the death of a spouse, slavery, blindness.
They wrote from broken hearts that were yearning for comfort and their pain became praise. And that is how we can use the hymns to comfort other people and comfort our own hearts too, to remind us through song, which is a great memory tool, who God is, how he's been faithful for generation after generation.
It helps us get our mind off of ourselves, off of the temporal pain that we're going through in this earth. Remind us that as believers, this is not our home and to suffer makes us more Christlike. We will reflect more closely the image of Christ when we suffer. It's meant to bring us to our knees. It's meant to draw us to the Lord to make us hold more loosely the things of this world and to desire heaven and desire Jesus and remember who he is and what he's done and what he suffered for us. And that's what the hymns do. I mean the hymns do such a beautiful job of that. And that's why I truly believe that they should be a part of every believer’s worship.
Stephanie Daniels: That's very powerful. And everything that you've just mentioned and described here reminds me of Joni because she always has a song in her heart. And she has shared often that on hard nights, hymns are what get her through until dawn. It's just so powerful. Hymns are extremely powerful. And I love that.
Emily Curtis: Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels: So, with that in mind, how do you help the younger generations who might go to churches where it is more contemporary worship and they don't sing hymns, how do you help to pass this truth down about hymns to the younger generation?
Emily Curtis: First of all, say that all of the hymns that are in "Hope in the Mourning" can be found at hopeinthemourning.com. com and listen to for free. So that's a great way to introduce people to hymns if they're not familiar with them. I was very intentional with which hymns I picked for this book, and there's a lot of great hymns that you can go, and you can find even on YouTube.
I know that Joni has actually authored a few books on hymns, and they tell the backstories of the hymns.
Stephanie Daniels: That's right. Joni wrote the book with Bobby Walgamuth, "Timeless Hymns for Family Worship". And she recently wrote, her book, "Songs of Suffering".
Emily Curtis: Yeah. So, there are great resources out there. There's also several books about John Newton who wrote amazing grace. And, learn what their life story was, and it will connect you in a whole different way with these hymns. And that's really what I would recommend. Go pick up a hymnal. Read through the lyrics. If you can read music, great. Play through some of them. If you can't, look them up online, it's such a great resource for your study of God's word and God's character.
Stephanie Daniels: That's so good. I love it.
Okay. Emily, you talked about as believers in the church that we are to carry one another's burdens. I know the church is well intentioned, but sometimes we do miss opportunities to come alongside and offer hope to those who are grieving. Have you noticed this and where are we missing it?
Emily Curtis: Yeah, I noticed this a lot. Actually, again, that was part of the inspiration behind this book. Part of it is that we just need to slow down. You know, we live in such a rushed culture and we often, even in the church, we rush past the grief of others. Instead as a church, we want to be different.
John 13:35 tells us that the world will know that we belong to Christ by our love for one another. So as a church, what does that actually look like practically speaking? That means that we need to slow down and love as Christ loves. We need to be self-sacrificial and intentional and ongoing with our love. You know, instead of just texting someone, Romans 8:28 or Jeremiah 29:11, and think that you've adequately ministered to them, we need to sit with them in their sorrow and be willing to make our world stop the way that their world has stopped.
That's what it looks like to be the hands and feet of Christ, is thinking, "How can I minister to this person in a way that shows them Christ?" And Christ doesn't rush us through our grief. He doesn't rush us into the next season or make it feel like our sorrow is inconvenient.
He is such a tender and compassionate God. He empathizes with our suffering. And that's exactly what we want to do in order to be Christlike and recognized as his children who so obviously love one another in contrast to a world that loves their own comfort. They don't want to step out of their comfort zone and step into grief with someone else. We should be completely different than the world in that area.
Stephanie Daniels: Wow. And I think the key to that, like you said, is slowing down. I get to read a lot of the comments that come through on our social media platforms. I was reading on YouTube the other day and a person shared that they lost their spouse 22 years ago, and they still cry and it's still very hard. You know, they've tried their best to move on and start serving. They've gotten into ministry. But they still cry and that just shows that grief really is the long game.
Emily Curtis: Mhmm.
Stephanie Daniels: So I know as a believer and as the church, we want to be better and do better to support those who are experiencing loss. And so how do we persevere with people going through hardship that lingers?
Emily Curtis: You know, I think that one of the things that we need to remember is that scripture does not tell us not to grieve because we have hope. It tells us don't grieve as those who have no hope. And sometimes as a church, we feel like people should move on. I feel like there's almost some sort of magical number in society's head of thinking like after a year. You know, you've already faced your first Christmas, you've already faced your first anniversary.
The world says, "Time heals all things." That's not true. Let's take Joni, for example, when you lose something like the ability to walk when you lose something that you have loved in your life, that's a real loss and it's something that you're going to grieve differently through different seasons. And so we don't want to rush people past that season. We want to remember them consistently, especially on anniversary dates. Whether it's the anniversary of their diagnosis, or the anniversary of when their child was born, or when they went to be with the Lord, whenever those things are. If you're close to them, try and remember those dates and just send a simple text message that says, "I'm praying for you today. I'd love to know what you did to celebrate so and so's life." Or, "You just came to my mind today, and I know that you have a lot on your plate with this long term illness that you have. Can I bring you a meal today? I would love to just serve your family this week." Those are ways that we can be intentional with them and continue that journey with them, because we're all in this race together. And we want to uphold one another and bring each other faithfully and consistently before the throne. Make other people's sorrows your own sorrows. That's what it looks like to love.
One of the things I said in the preface of this book is that when Lazarus died, Jesus wept. And he knew he was going to raise him from the dead, but Jesus wept. Partly because that was his friend, and he loved him, and partly because he loved Mary and Martha, and so he wept with those who were weeping. And that's what Romans 12:15 calls us to do, is to rejoice with those who are rejoicing, and weep with those who are weeping.
And I will say one other thing within the church that I think is really important, that, someone had brought up to me previously, and that is, don't usher people in the church too early on to speaking platforms. Because we want to make sure that their own hearts have been thoroughly tended to before you say, "So and so has gone through cancer. Let's invite them to be the speaker at this year's women's conference." They may not be ready for that. So instead making sure that you have thoroughly tended to them throughout the year or years, seeing where are they at? Are they at a place where they can share?
And that's something I tried to be careful about with this book too, is I didn't want to ask anybody that was really close to the date of their loss or their diagnosis to share their story. Because I think that it's loving to allow them some time to breathe and process their grief before you ask them if they're willing to share about that.
Stephanie Daniels: Oh, man, Emily. I feel like I've seen this done in my own life, whether I've been the one that has wanted to rush people through things, or I've seen it done at our church. I just have a lot to think about now and some texts that I need to get ready to send to just love on people.
Emily Curtis: It's something that every one of us can learn from. I learned from every single story that is submitted because they are different. And so, when you learn what is helpful, what is hurtful, it makes you not only see them differently, and see those situations differently, you feel more equipped. You feel like, okay, I'm ready to step in there, and I feel armed with knowing roughly what I should say and what I shouldn't say and how I can actually love this person where they're at with where the Lord has placed them right now.
Stephanie Daniels: 100%. Emily, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today, it's been a really encouraging conversation.
Emily Curtis: Thank you for having me
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