Sarah Fuller returns to the podcast to share how, with three biological children of their own, she and her husband sensed God calling to also serve as foster parents. Sarah tells how her whole family has taken part in loving and sheltering children in foster care, and welcomed a child with disabilities into their family permanently through adoption. Tune in for this inspiring conversation about how God can use a faithful “yes” to weave his grace and redemption into stories of complexity and brokenness.
Joni and Friends staff member Sarah Fuller returns to the podcast to share how, with three biological children of their own, she and her husband sensed God calling to also serve as foster parents. In conversation with Stephanie Daniels, Sarah tells how her whole family has taken part in loving and sheltering children in foster care, and welcomed a child with disabilities into their family permanently through adoption. Hear how God can use a faithful “yes” to weave his grace and redemption into stories of complexity and brokenness.
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Stephanie Daniels:
Hi friends! I’m your host, Stephanie Daniels, and you’re listening to the Joni and Friends Ministry Podcast. We’re sharing hope as we answer real questions about disability. Join us every week for an honest and encouraging conversation, along with practical ways to include people with disability in your church and community. So, grab a seat, and let’s jump in!
In our last conversation we spoke with Sarah Fuller and learned how she voluntarily opted in to the disability community.
I love Sarah's passion for the Lord and how she serves others. Sarah and her family felt the call to step out in faith through foster care, to love and care for children with disabilities in a brand-new way. And today, Sarah joins us again to share what she's learned through the journey of fostering, how the Lord gives her strength to walk this road with joy.
So, Sarah, welcome back to the podcast. Let's get right into your story. In episode one we talked about your background with international missions and God introducing you and your family to Joni and Friends and the disability community.
Today I wanna dig into another really big part of your life, which is foster care. How did God set you and your family on this path?
Sarah Fuller:
Well, it wasn't something that we intended to do from the start. I always have wanted to adopt, but I didn't know if that would ever be a possibility.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
But in 2010, we had had three biological kids already. And I just started praying, "Lord what do you want me to do as a stay at home mom?" I was really feeling like, how could I do something to serve others when I'm also parenting our children? So, my husband and I started praying about it and we thought about foster care.
We knew some foster families and we just talked to them about the possibility of doing it, and they were like, come, come to like a foster care parent meeting. And we heard from this gal who had been in foster care all her life and how much the family meant to her. And my husband, I just remember, even though we were praying about it, I think he was still hesitant and we heard her speak and he just turned to me and said, I can see us spending our life doing this. To hear him say that, you know, I wasn't going to Africa, but I was doing mission here in America and that just made me so excited.
So, we went through the whole process. It took about nine months to get through all the paperwork to become foster parents. And there was a lot of interviews, and they interviewed each one of our children. And it's a pretty intensive process to become a foster parent, at least in Washington state.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
Then we waited for our first placement, and we came and we, his, he's nicknamed Buster, um, we got him first and he was four months old when we got him at the time. Just a little guy and oh, we just fell in love with him, and it was just so much fun.
Because it's a mission that our whole family is on, our kids were involved in the process of deciding. We weren't gonna do something if they felt like it was gonna be hard, or a chore, because to be a sibling is a part of it. They were teaching them love also. And so, we needed them to be on board and all of them wanted to do it.
So, they adored him. We just loved on this little guy. He had visits with his biological family. We had the opportunity in the process to get to know them really well. We met them each visit and kind of handed him off. But they told us, “We trust you more than the people observing the visits. That we love handing them off to you and not to someone else." And I felt like that is so rare with foster parents. So, we got to know them pretty well and my kids were all with me, so they got to know them too, which is a little bit scary opening up your family. You can't protect everything.
I think in that process, my biological kids got introduced to drug affected babies. "Well, what is drugs?" At a young age, they got to see brokenness in the world that we could have protected them from.
Stephanie Daniels:
I'm very curious, how did you get your kids on board with this? How did you get them to the point where they were open to letting other kids come into the family?
Sarah Fuller:
Well, I mean, they loved babies. That was one thing they all liked. They liked being caregivers. I had two daughters and then a son. Jack, my son, was three at the time when we started doing foster care. So, he was just kind of up for whatever we did as a family. He was excited about everything. But the girls loved taking care of babies. We decided to only take babies since we were busy with elementary age activities at that time. It was easier to bring a baby along.
And I think that's the thing that I've asked myself later, like, "Did we really make that big of a difference?" And I just wanna tell you a little bit about Buster, 'cause when he went back to his biological family, he met his siblings for the first time. They had been staying with a relative.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
And he ran to them and hugged them. The social worker told me about it, and I said, “You know kids, that's the work that you did." They knew that the siblings would love him, and they knew what their role was. And so, I don't know if he remembers our faces or anything, but I feel like the impact that we had during those formative years was important and I hope to see him in heaven.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so beautiful.
Sarah Fuller:
So.
Stephanie Daniels:
You taught him family and I think that that's...
Sarah Fuller:
They taught him family.
Stephanie Daniels:
... that's a powerful lesson that's gonna stick with him. Learning that structure within your family is so sweet. I'm so glad that Buster, and I love that nickname, was part of your crew.
So, you fostered a son with disability. Can you tell us about Ewan? What is he like? And how has he been a blessing to your family?
Sarah Fuller:
After we went to Joni and Friends Family Retreat and served, this was kind of happening all at the same time. We actually opened the doors up to have children with disabilities in our home, because there's so many in foster care that come into care that are hard to place with disabilities. We got Ewan when he was two weeks old, and so we didn't know...
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, my goodness.
Sarah Fuller:
...that he would be affected by anything. And it was an interesting story because we had had a really hard placement before Ewan. He was pretty violent and really loud and that didn't work out with our kids. We had to make the tough decision to have him move to a different home, which was heartbreaking for me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
So, we were healing from that. And at some point they just keep calling you with babies. And that was really hard to say no.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
And my husband was like maybe, maybe we could do it. But, but there was a, but. I don't wanna take any kids that need to be adopted, 'cause we're never gonna adopt. We started having this conversation 'cause I was like, I really wanna adopt someday, even though that wasn't our full intent in the beginning.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Sarah Fuller:
So, he was like, “Wait, we just have to be clear, we're never gonna adopt. I don't wanna take a child that we'll be stuck in the court systems forever, or have tribal interactions, and I don't wanna take any child that's older than a certain age." So, he had these stipulations, but it was that day that he said, "But I think we're gonna glorify the Lord most in saying yes."
Stephanie Daniels:
Ugh.
Sarah Fuller:
And they called us with Ewan that very day. That same day. We said yes and we got him, and it turns out that he does have some tribal affiliations that we didn't know when we first took him. And within two weeks they were asking us if we would consider adopting him...
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Sarah Fuller:
...because, because of his situation. So, there was a little bit of struggle with my husband there, 'cause now we already loved him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
He's already in our home. We've already all fell in love with him. And I think God was asking us to consider making him a permanent part of our family, and we said yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that you said yes. And it makes me think like, what happens when we say never?
Sarah Fuller:
I think we learned that God surprises us. When we started foster care, we knew that there were going to be things that were unexpected. You never know what God's gonna require of you.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Sarah Fuller:
All you're saying yes to is loving this child. And then like the next step, that God is gonna ask you to do, you have to be open to.
Ewan has been such a blessing to our family. It ended up taking two and a half years to end up adopting him. It took longer than they anticipated. But by that point we recognized that there were some differences. He wasn't speaking. He had some sensory issues. I started recognizing them being a background in special education. We started working with him, making eye contact and those things really early. We actually enrolled him in speech and OT and through that process we ended up getting a diagnosis of autism. So, we didn't know before he was adopted, but we did know something was different with him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Man, what you just said kind of struck me. It could be any situation that we are wanting to give God our ‘yes,’ we don't know what he's gonna require of us. You didn't know he was gonna give you a son with autism, but I believe that he equips you, right? He gives you what you need, he provides to help you along the journey. So that's really wonderful that you were able to get Ewan what he needed to get him established.
Something that you've previously shared with me that really stood out through this journey is inviting grief. It was hard but beautiful. There are gifts that we don't know about. Yes, there can be often unexpected things, but really beautiful things can come out of hard seasons of fostering a child that you don't see immediately. How has that played out in your family?
Sarah Fuller:
Well, I think part of foster care was saying goodbye to each one of those children that you love. I think if you're doing foster care well, you're loving them. And they belong to your family. Because that's what they need in that moment is a family and a feeling of belonging. No matter what age. And if you treated them differently than you would your biological kids, then you're not giving them what they need.
And so, we opened our hearts and loved each child, which meant that the goodbyes were hard. And the goodbyes were hard for my kids who invested. Like I said before, this was their mission too. And really trusting the Lord with all of it, because I think watching my kids grieve was really hard. Each time we said goodbye, and trusting God's plan. Like for Buster, which I just mentioned. It was hard for my kids. There were lots of tears. They loved him like a brother. And then to say goodbye was really hard for all of 'em.
But a couple of my children, through that process, asked more meaningful questions about suffering. Like, "Why did God allow us to love him and then take him away?" Which led to more discussions about God, and his sovereign plan, and his forgiveness, and the Gospel, which led to one of 'em being baptized.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
Like I think. I think when we protect our kids from any hurt, then they don't grow and learn. And God has used the foster care in so many ways. And in another little smaller way, my son Jack, who's now 19, changed a lot of diapers. He watched a lot of babies.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
And he loves babies. He always wants to hold babies, and take care of babies, but because he is a male who's 19, it takes mothers a little bit of like, "Oh, right, okay. This is unusual." But we always had babies in our home and the kids really loved that part.
But it changed my perspective on protecting your kids from grief. And I think, of course you don't wanna hurt your kids.
Stephanie Daniels:
Sure, sure.
Sarah Fuller:
But this kind of grief, I think, was intentional that what we saw led to lots of intentional conversations about the Gospel. And really what he calls all Christians to do, which is care for orphans and widows in their distress.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
You know, and that we were involving them in that as they were growing up.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Sarah Fuller:
So.
Stephanie Daniels:
And I think that that's really neat that you have these opportunities to disciple your kids, you know?
Sarah Fuller:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
God wants to be their God as well, and so it, it's helping them relate to him and know him and see how he works in situations. So, I love that this has been a family effort. I think that's such a beautiful mission. We're all here for a purpose. We're all here on mission and I love that you've just said, "Hey guys, we're doing this together."
Well, Sarah Joni's well-known statement, "God permits what he hates to accomplish what he loves," was told to her by her good friend Steve Estes when she was newly paralyzed. And you've also related this statement to fostering. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Sarah Fuller:
Yeah, I mean, seeing the brokenness of the families, but also the court system. So, when we decided to adopt Ewan, it took a long time in the courts and it was hard because your heart was on the line. You had this child, but was he gonna be your child forever? And you didn't know. It actually helped me relate a little bit to Moses's mother, where she got to nurse him and be with him, but it wasn't forever. And that gave me like a new insight into that story where I really empathized with her because she didn't know and I didn't know.
People want to see the bow on the story. They wanna see it all come together and see God's plan. And I did too, but we would always get like, "Oh, is he adopted yet?" Or, "Is he still in foster care?"
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
I think people unknowingly asking those questions because they cared about us. It was like my heart was on my sleeve...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
...because I was constantly aware that the court system could go a different way. And I think just trusting God through that process, it wasn't in my timeline that he got adopted. I was ready to see it all come together. I was so sure that God was just gonna do this quickly.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
And then it was just gonna display who he is, but it took longer. And it took growth on our part and trusting him through that process of each court date of, "Well, is this gonna happen today? Or is it gonna have to be pushed back?" And I think that's a real common story with fostering...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
...is that you're always on the line. Like you never know what the outcome is gonna be. But I know God.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Sarah Fuller:
And trusting him with that brought a new level of, I'm not trusting the court systems. They're messed up.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
And, of course there's a cost on the line. My heart is on the line. But God I can trust. He knows my heart, even if it's hard or even if it's not the answer I expect, he is good and he is gonna work it for my good in his glory.
So, I think that was what I meant that like, he hates all this brokenness, but even in Ewan's biological family, like they were broken. Their story is hard. But we have seen God's hand in bringing him to our family, otherwise, if that brokenness didn't exist, he wouldn't be a part of our family.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Sarah Fuller:
But God worked that way that he is. God is about redeeming families and redeeming stories. I see his hand so evidently in foster care.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. And I love that. God's heart, I believe, is like you said, for the orphans and the widows and...
Sarah Fuller:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...adoption is his heart. We've been adopted into his family...
Sarah Fuller:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
...as believers. And the Word also says that he puts the lonely in families. In Psalm 68:6. Even though it, it's a hard road, I know that he's in it. It brings so much hope for those...
Sarah Fuller:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
...in need of hope.
Sarah Fuller:
I think people like to put foster families in a box and say, "Oh, God made you for this. You're so special. You're this extraordinary family who can do this. Well, we're not." And it's like, "No, we're not." It's always God. God is the great God, he's the hero of this story.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
None of us are good in and of ourselves and anyone can do it. It wasn't like Steve and I were like, "We wanna be exceptional people." We've never thought that. We've muddled through everything. But we trusted God and he gave us what we need in each moment to do what he's called us to do. So.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. And that's encouraging to me. 'Cause I know I'm on the fence. And it's probably more fear. It's fear, about stepping out and bringing somebody into our home. And so, I just need to listen to all of the things that we've talked about today and know that God is gonna equip me for where he's taking me.
Sarah Fuller:
Yeah. That grace isn't there today ' cause you haven't said yes yet.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right?
Sarah Fuller:
It'll be there when it's the right time. You know?
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, that so, so good. Sarah, I'm really curious, how has your church community been helpful or encouraging to you and your family as you foster children and raised your son, Ewan? Have they been accepting and open? Have you run into any challenges?
Sarah Fuller:
We were at a different church when we first started this journey. And so, I remember it being hard. And not because they didn't have good intentions. I think people really didn't know how to support foster families. You know, we're taking care of newborns a lot and miss sleep. Even if you're taking an older child, I feel like it's an adjustment for your family.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
We took this one little guy, and he came to us straight from the hospital. He had almost died from exposure to meth.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Sarah Fuller:
And he was scared. And I think he was in such a place of crisis that he wouldn't sleep unless I was holding him. And so, I stayed up all night holding him in my chair because he, he was afraid to go to sleep. And so, sleep is a big issue when you're in that crisis mode for children. But I feel like that helped us bond. That little guy, he will always be in my heart because of those special moments where I got to help him be that person as he healed.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
From a really traumatic event. So like, I think in those situations, how does the church respond? Like they don't know because in their mind they're like, oh yeah, you got another one. You can handle it. You know what you're doing. They don't realize that every child we get, it's trauma.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
Like, we're just adjusting to what they need. Not only as a baby, but at that added piece of coming in crisis, like they've just been ripped away from everything they know. Of course they're gonna need time to adjust.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
So, they would ask, you know, "Oh you got a new one?" Really flippantly sometimes. And I'm like, "No, this little guy, like, he's amazing." Or if they heard one of them call me "Mama," which happened, 'cause they don't know. They know it's a role that I'm doing. They don't know that I'm not their permanent mom. And, I think it's important that they do do that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
'Cause they're learning that their mom loves them. So, if they hear that, they're like, "Oh, but you're not their real mom." And I'm like, "No, for right now I am."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
You know? I don't know if it's gonna be permanent, but for now, I am their mom as they learn what family is. And so, I think the church community, it's not for lack of trying, I just don't think they knew the skills. And this happens a lot too with disability. Like they just don't know what they don't know.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
Um, and foster care is messy and I think for foster families, what they need is to know that someone's in it with them. If you take in an older child that looks a lot like your child getting arrested or running away you know, like that looks differently than a baby because trauma comes out differently with whatever age.
So that means going to the parents, to the court cases. Or being around them even though behaviors can be hard. I remember one of the children we had had prenatal meth exposure. And a doctor I went to was a new doctor for me and she was like, it was prenatal meth exposure. You know, like, "What did you do?" Almost like accusatory, like I was his biological mom.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Sarah Fuller:
And I felt that shame for a moment of like, oh, the poor bio mom has to live with that forever and that the community doesn't let you forget, you know?
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Sarah Fuller:
And what that must be like to not receive forgiveness. I just learned so many things. And I think it's hard for a church who wants to offer belonging. if you have a teenager who's swearing…
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
…at youth group, like what? That's a, that's a problem that can't happen. And so, I think it's complicated and messy, and therefore hard.
So, I think even offering to just bring a meal if they get a new placement. Or babysit, give them a night off. Or providing physical needs. 'Cause a lot of times the foster checks, you can't live off of those, they're infrequent, and they come at the end of the month. So, if you get a placement at the beginning of the month, everything is out of your pocket until that funding comes. And so, they're paying things that they're not used to paying for.
I think those kinds of things could really help families, but mostly just listening. Asking them, how's it going? Not assuming it's going really smoothly for them...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
...'cause it could be really hard.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Well, I love practical tips and those are very helpful for us to know how we can approach families who are fostering and offer help, or check in on people. I just always wonder like, what is the right approach, you know?
Sarah Fuller:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
And, I feel like not just being decent, you know? Mm-hmm. As a believer, there should be an approach that is steeped in God's love and in his compassion and just us being loving people and so...
Sarah Fuller:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...um, it just always helps to hear from somebody who's walked the road. This would've been helpful, or this was not helpful.
Sarah Fuller:
Well, and I've heard from families too, that like in Christian churches and communities, there's an encouragement to foster or adopt, like, "Oh, that's a beautiful thing." Like we can recognize the Gospel in that. And I think where it falls apart a little bit is we're not sure how to support, and then those families like stepped out thinking, “Oh, this is a community effort and we're gonna get all this support,” and then people don't know how, or don't know what to do. And I feel like it falls away and they feel alone and isolated. Especially if that child has disabilities.
There's so many appointments that goes along with foster care, with OT, speech, visitations with parents, counseling appointments, whatever it is. There's so many appointments, just like with disability that it becomes overwhelming for a family. It's not gonna be simple, because sin is messy. It's broken.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
And you're welcoming that into your family. And I think for a church, you have to be flexible and ask good questions and listen. And maybe be creative in how you support those families, because they don't know. You don't know what's down the road.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. I'm just curious about this too, like you guys didn't set out to foster and adopt a child with disabilities, but you were open to it. Can you talk a little bit about children with disabilities in the foster care system? What happens to them? What are their chances of getting adopted out, or fostered out?
Sarah Fuller:
Well, I mean, I've met some children with disabilities who are fostered who end up in great homes. So, I see that a lot too. But there are a lot of times where people don't wanna adopt them because of behaviors. And because trauma affects people's neurological development.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Fuller:
And so, they could have behaviors that are unexplained. And those are the things that are hard, and those kids stay in the system. A lot of them don't get adopted and they just grow up bouncing from foster home to foster home. And then when they graduate out of the system, they don't have a family base. And I think there's some great Christian foster agencies out there that are actually trying to let families not officially adopt, but adopt adult foster kids who are outta the system, who don't have a family.
So, there are some opportunities like that. So, I'd encourage you to explore those in your area because it is a big need. Especially if, for those with disabilities, will end up either entering a group home or, sadly, a lot of 'em with mental health issues end up on the street and contributing to the same cycles that their parents had.
Stephanie Daniels:
Well, this leads me to my next question because you said, "If not the church, then who?" What would you say to someone who may be on the fence about fostering, especially a child with a disability?
Sarah Fuller:
I think even with a biological child, you don't know what that child would be like. It's an exercise in trust and there's fear there too, I think. But with foster care, the likelihood goes up that they either have a disability or affected by trauma in some way. And so, I think I understand that fear. But I have seen the beauty and the gifts outweigh the hard parts in our lives.
I'm grateful for my son. Before I was just a special ed teacher and not experience it in our family, and now I'm just so grateful for him and that has led me to be more active with families to do playgroups and moms groups and have more capacity for supporting and inviting other people.
But if you're thinking about foster care, just trust God. He's so big and it's not like we started out thinking, " God, we wanna do something big for you." We just said, "Hey, we're already doing a family, let's do this with a child that needs one."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
And I think God took care of the rest. Just being open. And maybe it's not for you, and I think God will close that door. I think through my life, just reflecting on all that we've talked about Stephanie in the past two episodes, discerning God's will for serving. He's, he's doing work, I wanna be a part of it.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Sarah Fuller:
I’m willing to go wherever he wants me to go and do whatever he wants me to do, but I think sometimes we just don't know what that is. And so just start praying and then being open to the opportunities that God leads.
One book that was really formative in me, all of these different ways that God has worked in my life, is Joni. In that book, works through the theology of suffering, which I feel like God has used everywhere that he's led us, whether it's foster care, or through disability ministry, or international disability ministry. Understanding how God used her story through becoming quadriplegic, to glorify himself, really. There's purpose...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Sarah Fuller:
...in that. That has framed everything that God has led us to do so far. And I think it will continue to, because understanding that purpose in suffering is vital to God's work, 'cause he's about redeeming and saving us all.
Sorry that was a long answer.
Stephanie Daniels:
No! That's a great answer. I love your heart and how you have been unafraid to step out. To just step into what the Lord is calling you to. And I feel like that would be my prayer for myself and for our listeners, that we would just trust the Lord in every season, every situation, and step out into what he's asking us to do.
And if you are listening and wanna hear more about foster care, adoption, and maybe you want some resources, I encourage you to check out the show notes because we've linked two previous episodes of the podcast there. Back in season five we did an episode with Laura Hernandez, a mother of 10, and she joined the podcast to share parenting wisdom, especially for those raising adopted children and children with disabilities. And then in season six, we had a great conversation with Stacy Dewitt. So, I encourage you to avail yourself to those podcast episodes and just listen and glean from the information that was shared, and I know it will encourage you.
Sarah, you have been just so beautiful to sit down and talk with. Thank you so much for joining us again today. Your insight and how you've modeled your faith for your children and those you serve and how you do it all with joy is so wonderful and inspiring. Thank you so much, friend.
Sarah Fuller:
Thank you for having me. I could just talk to you all day. Stephanie, it's so fun.
Stephanie Daniels:
We hope this conversation touched your heart today. If it did, consider sharing it with someone who might be encouraged as well. And don’t forget to follow us on your favorite podcasting app so you never miss an episode. See you next week!
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