Struggling with mental health can be part of being human in a broken world. Disciples of Christ have never been promised a trouble-free life. As many faithful believers, including Joni Eareckson Tada, can attest, grappling with depression and other mental health challenges, and even crises, is often part of the Christian walk. Our guest today, Joni and Friends staff member Kali Lilienthal, shares her story of how God has worked through medical and mental health professionals, community, Scripture, and prayer to turn her season of difficulty with depression and anxiety into one of deepening faith in Jesus. Don’t miss this encouraging conversation, which will remind you that you and your loved ones are never alone, even as you walk through dark valleys.
Struggling with mental health can be part of being human in a broken world. Disciples of Christ have never been promised a trouble-free life. As many faithful believers, including Joni Eareckson Tada, can attest, grappling with depression and other mental health challenges, and even crises, is often part of the Christian walk. Our guest today, Joni and Friends staff member Kali Lilienthal, shares her story of how God has worked through medical and mental health professionals, community, Scripture, and prayer to turn her season of difficulty with depression and anxiety into one of deepening faith in Jesus. Don’t miss this encouraging conversation, which will remind you that you and your loved ones are never alone, even as you walk through dark valleys.
View Joni Eareckson Tada's New Life Painting
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When a broken neck upended her plans at age 17, Joni Eareckson Tada thought life was over. She fell into a deep depression. And over decades, Joni’s paralysis and pain often made her feel like giving up. But God’s presence and Word have always held her up when she might otherwise have fallen.
Joni anchors her emotions to the Lord’s powerful promises, like the one found in Lamentations 3:21–23: “Yet this I call to mind and therefore I have hope: Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.”
While depression sometimes lurks nearby for Joni, she invites God to illuminate the shadows, and her heart, with his bright truth. And she prays, “Let my life be a testament that ‘the precepts of the Lord are right, bringing joy to the heart; the commandments of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes’ (Psalm 19:8).”
Hear from Joni Eareckson Tada’s heart on the topic of depression
Hear Joni share about how God has redeemed her deep suffering
KEY QUESTIONS:
KEY SCRIPTURES:
Stephanie Daniels:
Welcome back to the Joni and Friends Ministry podcast, where we come together to find hope, strength, and connection in the midst of our unique, but often relatable challenges. Today's episode is a deeply honest and important one because we're talking about something that affects so many families, yet often stays hidden: mental health challenges.
I'm joined by a courageous woman of faith and fellow Joni and Friends staff member Kali Lilienthal, who's walking a path many might find familiar, but rarely feel safe enough to speak about. She's a believer who loves Jesus, yet found herself in a season so dark that she needed to be hospitalized for her mental health. And she joins us to open up about her journey and the hope that is still very much alive.
Whether you're walking through your own mental health journey, supporting someone you love, or trying to make sense of it all in light of your faith in Jesus, I believe that this episode will meet you with grace and encouragement. So, grab a cup of tea or take us on a walk and let's step into this sacred real conversation together.
Kali, I'm so glad you're here today with us. Welcome to the podcast.
Kali Lilienthal:
Hello Stephanie. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Stephanie Daniels:
Awesome. Well, let's jump right in. Could you tell me a bit about your history and your family? What was early life like for you? And was there a certain point when things started to feel overwhelming and did you notice any warning signs?
Kali Lilienthal:
First, I just wanna say I'm super thankful to be here talking about this. It's very near and dear to my heart. A little bit about my history and my family. I'm the first-born daughter. My parents, they've been together for 28 years. And I have one brother. I'm a very family-oriented person. Mom's Italian, dad's Irish, we're very close knit.
I lived in California until I was about seven and then my parents and I, we moved to Colorado and I spent about five years there. Early on I went through a lot of transition. I had switched from different schools. I grew up knowing about God. My mom is a woman of faith. My grandparents are very strong in faith. So, I up knowing about God and my mom read me the Bible, but we would really only go to sometimes on holidays. And it wasn't really until high school that I started dipping my toes a little bit more with my mom, we would go to church. I think that's when I really saw anxious tendencies.
My mom says that I was very observant child, was the one to sit and watch everybody else playing. Oftentimes worried at a young age. I was very quiet. To myself. But I didn't really feel any type of overwhelming feelings until really those early adolescent days, 13, 14. I think I was just very emotionally in tune. I was very empathetic to other people. Super happy, always have a smile on my face. But I would say that age 13, 14, I started to think a little bit deeper about life. Struggled a little bit with feelings of anxiety. When I got to high school, think that it continued. I was a senior, my uncle passed away from cancer.
Stephanie Daniels:
Hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
My mom was in the hospital due to some health concerns. I think that grief mixed with those feelings and stressors of being a senior in high school and transitioning into the world outside of your parents’ house, and the leadership and guidance of your teachers and school, to making a decision about college and what I wanted to do with my life. So that with a mixture of you know, seeing family members pass away and that grief. I think that anxiety started to overwhelm me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like at such a crucial point in your life you know, you're, gosh ,puberty is just hard, and high school is hard and you're having to navigate internal feelings, and a lot of external things and relationships, and then familial relationships and...
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
...losing loved ones. That was a lot.
So, you are kind of in that time in high school and going into college. I know that there can be a lot of shame and isolation attached to a struggle with mental health. When did your struggle begin? And when did you realize that you may need professional help?
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah, so my struggle really began, I would say right when I was about to graduate in undergrad. I started as an English major and once I started taking classes, I ended up realizing that it maybe isn't the path that I wanted to go on. So, I switched my major to psychology and I really felt called to psychology. I was very interested in all of what it had bring. But I think where I really saw the shift is when there was this lie, that if I wanna help other people, how can I help if I can't help myself?
I was showing up to classes and I had this goal of graduating and becoming a psychologist, whatever capacity that would be. But I was deeply struggling with things in my personal life. I think that ultimately, I was just so focused on getting the degree and getting the psychology qualifications, but I didn't really have much direction. And it wasn't until Jesus met me that I had that direction. There was a big shift when I was about to graduate, mostly because it felt real. Okay, here I'm gonna have this accomplishment and I'm struggling with these feelings of anxiety. And I wanna be a psychologist for career, but how am I able to do that if I can't even understand what I'm going through?
I have been somebody who likes to put others before myself, and I wasn't really paying much attention to the ways in which I really needed support, and how to ask for that, because I felt ashamed of asking because here I am trying to pour into others.
Stephanie Daniels:
That makes a lot of sense. I think that so many of us can feel this pressure to have it all together, especially if you're stepping into a field or if you're in a position where you're gonna be speaking into somebody's life. And it just is so interesting to me that Jesus really wants to partner with us, he gives us wisdom, he directs our paths, and the Word tells us that, you know, to really seek him for that direction.
Kali Lilienthal:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
We can plan our way, but he directs our steps. And I feel like that is often a part that we leave out, we overlook it, and so we are leaning on our own understanding when he tells us not to. I can understand how you were feeling the weight of...
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
...that. So, as you're dealing with mental health challenges, how did Jesus become even more real to you? You said you were raised in a Christian home and I'm just curious, how did he meet you?
Kali Lilienthal:
So, Jesus met me in a really profound way. It was very intimate and in a very dark season. 2020 when Covid was happening, I had applied the semester before to study abroad in Australia, and I had committed to do a year. I learned a lot about myself. I was close knit with my family in my small community where I went to high school. And this was my first time that I was able to go and, have that like sense of independence. So, I flew out to Australia and a couple months into it, Covid happened and I was sent home. There was so much uncertainty. There was so many things happening and I had just thought about this amazing opportunity to go abroad and study psychology in different country and learn a different culture, and then it was just taken from me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Kali Lilienthal:
And I think that I was so confused, I didn't know why that was happening, but it just only added to my anxiety and my feelings of fear and all of the unknown...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
...on top of what everybody else was going through during Covid...
Stephanie Daniels:
My goodness.
Kali Lilienthal:
...So when I came home, I was lost. Honestly, that's the best way to put it. I was so lost.
I think that I knew about God, you know, I was dedicated as a baby. But to have Jesus meet you is just such a different thing. I was going through all of the heartbreak of what I thought my life was gonna look like, I was like, "Okay, God, I'm here. I'm working towards this degree in psychology and I don't really know what you want me to do with this." I was searching for direction. I, I, I was searching for God now that I look back at it.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
But I didn't really know that that was happening. So yeah, fast forward to my last semester in undergrad. It was January of 2022, I'd be graduating in May. And I had been overtaken by so much anxiety and so many panic attacks.
I don't know if anybody's ever had a panic attack before, but for me, all of my symptoms were very physical. So, racing heart rate, facial numbness, physical symptoms that were manifesting. And I was super scared.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
I had no idea what was happening with my body. I was just so overwhelmed by stress and I didn't realize how severe it was because I think I was just trying to ignore it.
Looking back, I wasn't honest with my family. I wasn't honest with myself. I wasn't honest really with God. I think I wanted a quick fix. I think that my family and everybody around me knew I was struggling, they just didn't know to what level. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that I was just so nervous to share what I was actually going through because it was so scary.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
2022 I hadn't been to church in a while and my mom, she had a friend that called her up and said, "Hey, would you wanna go to church with your daughter this Sunday?" And I remember immediately being like, “Yes I'm in my breaking point, I don't even know.” So, we showed up, I remember sitting outside and I heard the whole message. And the first thing I did after the service was go straight up to the pastor. And I told him, " I wanna know more about Jesus. I don't know who he is, but I'm really struggling with anxiety and depression right now, and I need help." And that was really the start of wanting to know more about God. And knowing more about who Jesus is.
Stephanie Daniels:
I think that that's so crucial and important. I think what you did took courage, and maybe it was from a place of desperation, but just going to the pastor after church and saying, "I need to meet Jesus." 'Cause you mentioned earlier you were looking for Jesus, but maybe you didn't realize it. And I think that is where a lot of people find themselves.
I love that the Lord will like breadcrumbs kind of drop things to lead you to truth. And I'll see that when I'm going through comments on our social media platform for Joni and Friends and people are saying, "I am so glad that I came across this video because I was really struggling."
I just am thankful for so much of what you just shared, because there can be a lot of shame attached to struggling. And like you said, your family doesn't know how badly you might be struggling. They may not know how to help you. And you don't feel vulnerable enough to say, this is where I am. But God. I think that he can get you to a place where he leads you to say, "I need help." And he's showing you, "I'm the way and I'm here to help you. Let me lead you." So, I love that he had you on a path, leading you to truth.
When you and I previously chatted you mentioned, "It's not about me, it's Christ in me." What brought about the knowledge that you can't do this life without God?
Kali Lilienthal:
I definitely had my own ideas of what it meant to be a Christian and what Christianity meant too. And I think that was Kali giving in the way of what God had for me. So, I think a lot about how he met me, because if I wouldn't have gone to church that day, I genuinely don't know where I would be today.
When we left church, I remember my mom, she took me straight to a small store in my hometown and she bought me my first Bible with my name engraved in it, and there was a sticker right next to it. I was looking at all these different books about anxiety and fear and, you know, I had this newfound hope in what had just experienced at church, but I knew that the battle wasn't over yet.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
And so, there was a sticker, and it had this monarch butterfly and it had the second Corinthians 5:17 verse and it says, "Behold you are a new creation in Christ. The old has passed away and the new is here." And I didn't know it yet, but God was totally speaking to me through that Scripture. I was about to go through something that was gonna be really hard for me and my family. I think back to that day, and I'm so thankful for the invitation to go.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
Just the seeds that were planted in...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
inviting me there. And also, like you said, I thank God for the courage that he gave me in that moment and to be so like honest with the pastor about where I was and for him to just pray with me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
And affirm like Jesus is here with you...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Kali Lilienthal:
...he, he's in this with you. So that was a huge blessing. After that, the anxiety didn't disappear. And I think that that's one thing that may have confused me little bit in the moment. 'Cause I was so excited to know about Jesus and who he was. But it takes time.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
And it takes getting to know him. I almost think of it like being a child again and learning how to walk. I think of that and I always talk Jesus about that. It's learning how to do day to day with him, but also realizing who you are in him. Like he created you. He has known you. He has formed you in your mother's womb. He is all knowing. He has known you and been with you since the moment that he created you till the end of time. You know? So...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
... I think that realizing that and understanding who my creator was, was a huge part of my story.
That was in January, and then by March things had escalated. I was approaching my graduation day. Things were still really hard. I was still getting to know who Jesus was. And my church community was so loving. And really came alongside me and loved like Jesus. They really did. They loved like Jesus in such a hard time. It wasn't a quick fix though. And I thank God for that because he really had to undo a lot of broken and fearful pieces of me to bring to light all that he had for me.
After that day I was in my Word, I was showing up to young adults, had a lot of people praying for me. I met a lot of awesome friends that loved Jesus with their whole heart. And I was still caught up in “What is my purpose?” I was still experiencing panic attacks, a lot of anxiety.
One piece of my story that maybe people can resonate with is being a psychology major, and then also having some ideas of what medication was. I was very scared of medicine, and I was very scared of doctors, very scared of hospitals.
I was having frequent panic attacks. The best way to describe it is you feel like you're in danger, but you're not. This specific time I was transported the emergency room. They did all the medical tests and they said, you're a healthy 22-year-old and everything is okay. We might need to explore some medical intervention for the depression and anxiety and the emotional symptoms that you're facing. At this point, I had to surrender. I remember listening to worship music in the room.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
And I was so scared. They were saying, “Hey, it's time for medication.” And I was very nervous about that, but I remember just very clearly the Lord is in this.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
So, I went home and unfortunately, the medication that was given to me at first wasn't the correct one. It was a, a time of trial and error. And the unique thing about mental health is that it's so different for each person. So, I'm thankful for the medical professionals, and the people who are in that room that day, who, did their best to provide me with the medicine that they thought would be best at the time.
Three days later I ended up back, you know, in the emergency room and I was sent to a mental health facility. They evaluated where I was, and the psychiatrist decided to make a medication switch. I was transported by ambulance three hours away from home, not remembering a whole lot of what was going on because I was just placed on so many different medications and doctors were trying to figure out what was going on. I was trying to figure out what was going on, and it became a crisis. I don't remember a whole lot of being in the facility.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
But what I do remember is that I had a roommate and one of my first memories was I woke up and she was praying for me. So, what I can say is that, even though it was scary...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
...and there was a lot of things going on in crisis, God never left my side.
Stephanie Daniels:
Come on.
Kali Lilienthal:
From the moment that I was in the emergency room from the moment that I was transported a facility.
Stephanie Daniels:
As you're talking, I just am thinking of Isaiah 41:10 and I think it really sums up all that you've walked through so beautifully. And it's just a reminder that God is with us. It says, "So do not fear for I am with you. Do not be dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand."
As you're speaking and, and sharing your testimony, it's just so encouraging to know that he's been with you in all of that.
Kali Lilienthal:
Mm-hmm. Amen.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah, thank you so much for just recounting that. 'Cause I know, sometimes it's hard to go back, and think about it and talk about it, but I just appreciate you 'cause I know that this is, blessing somebody today that's hearing it.
So, I wanna know, what did healing look like after you left the facility? Was it linear? Was it messy? Was it hopeful? What was that like for you?
Kali Lilienthal:
It was all of the above. Healing was messy. Definitely not linear, but deeply hopeful. There were a a lot of hard moments, but there was a ton of joy that came from it. I think that I learned a lot and when I look back in the healing, I think it's really important to realize that I'm continuing to heal...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
...and there's not this place that I need to be at. The Lord has literally orchestrated every single step to this moment in time.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Kali Lilienthal:
The most encouraging thing about it all was that he really just met me where I was at in such a broken place. And there is this piece that I really wanna emphasize, it doesn't happen overnight, and it may not look like we it's gonna look.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
Like it may get worse before it gets better. And I didn't realize that I had to literally be stripped of everything emotionally and physically to realize that God was all I ever needed.
Stephanie Daniels:
Come on.
Kali Lilienthal:
And that I'm nothing without him, and that it's all on his strength. It was super up and down, and it continues to be, like anything else that you face in life. You're gonna have highs and lows. But it was so hopeful, and he was in every single little detail.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
Healing isn't perfection. It's progress and it's presence. The main focus here, and again what I would love to emphasize is, God's with you and he'll never leave you. He doesn't have plans to harm us. He's not going to forsake us. He's not gonna leave us hanging. He's in every dark day. So even though it was a very deep and hard experience, I look back and I'm like, he was in every moment, every single little thing.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
God so faithful. He'll meet you where you're at.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. And something you just said about the Lord stripping you of all of the things, I think that that's a beautiful place to be.
Kali Lilienthal:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
And I think Paul talked about it in Philippians 4:12-13 and basically he's talking about, I know what it is to be in need and I know what it is to have plenty, "I've learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all things through him who gives me strength." And it really is Christ's strength that pulls us through.
Kali Lilienthal:
Oh yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Whether he strips us down to nothing or, we've realized that he is all we need. But it is his strength that carries us. I feel like what you're saying is what's been said in the word, but it's come from your own experience. Like, you've come to the same conclusions that Paul has come to and it's just so encouraging.
Kali Lilienthal:
It's an interesting place to be too, as a believer in the Christian community, because I didn't know much Bible.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
And so just stepping into this community, I've always thought, “Oh, I need to know God's word. I have to check all of these boxes.”
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
But the thing about being a Christian, and thing about Jesus's love is that he can literally use anything, wherever you're at.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
And from the moment that I him, every day I have learned more and more about him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
Through reading his Word.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
And just to see how each and every day, every season of my life, the more and more that I get into the scriptures and the Word it...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
really brings me back to the time where he met me so intimately.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Well, it's so beautiful, he's showing you his character.
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And we're gonna talk about that in a little bit, but, you know, it's what we read in the Word what we see, but then he's allowing you to like experience it in your life. It's so beautiful. He's so kind. He's such a kind, loving God.
How did your faith impact your experience, Kali? Were there moments when you questioned God? And if you did, how did you wrestle with that?
Kali Lilienthal:
I definitely questioned God. However, I think the experience that I had was so real that it was unbelievable, it had to be God. I never questioned if he was real, I mostly questioned like, "Why did this happen to me?"
God welcomes questions and I've learned that he can handle them.
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely.
Kali Lilienthal:
So, he knows our thoughts before we even speak them. And he still loves us. He knows the times that we're gonna make mistakes and he knows the ways in which we try to lean on our own self-reliance over him. And he doesn't leave us. He still loves us and lovingly corrects us.
I think that questioning God is a very real thing, he just wants us to turn to him and talk to him about it.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah, I think it's because he just wants to show us more parts of him and show us more of who he is. And so, I think that he does, like you said, he welcomes those questions and he's not afraid of our anger if we're mad at him or upset.
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And I think the beautiful thing about God is he doesn't waste anything. He doesn't waste our experiences. I think that there's a purpose for all of it, Joni could easily say, "Why did I take that dive, Lord?"
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
"Why did I have to break my neck? Why did I become quadriplegic?" And I know there's so many people that say, " God doesn't do those things. He, he's not a mean God." But I definitely think he has a plan for our lives. He allows things, but he uses them for his glory. And like Joni has said, "My healing hasn't been a physical one, but it's been a spiritual one."
Like you said, God can handle our questions, but he has a deeper purpose in what he allows in our lives. He's been really dealing with me on trusting him, you know?
Kali Lilienthal:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
Trusting the things that I was hoping for or believing for, and I haven't seen them yet, but I can...
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
...look back at all the things that he has done and I'm like, man, God, you were faithful to me there. You were faithful to me there. You showed up here. You showed up there. And so, I'm like, we can trust him. And we can trust him with our experiences that don't always make sense 'cause I know that he'll redeem them like he always does.
In light of that, I'm wondering how has your view of God changed, if at all, since walking through this experience? Has he shown you anything about his character that's been encouraging or a blessing to you?
Kali Lilienthal:
He's shown me so much. And thank you for that point, Stephanie. When I started at Joni and Friends, I learned about Joni and one thing she says is, "God permits what he hates, to accomplish what he loves."
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
And that has deeply resonated with me, because he didn't love that I was sitting in a hospital bed. He didn't love that I was suffering. He didn't love all of the pain that came from that experience.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Kali Lilienthal:
But he used it for his glory. And that's something that is so beautiful and near and dear to my heart. So, I'm thankful that Joni says that a lot.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
It stuck with me. My view of God changed so much. And it's honestly, like I said earlier, I feel like a child again, learning how to walk.
Stephanie Daniels:
Hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
But it's better because I am such a family person. My dad and my mom are everything to me. They were great parents and being in such a safe environment growing up, I had that safety. But when I was alone, and then I realized that I have God, there's no such thing as alone anymore for me. Because I can turn to him. And in those moments when I was going through such a hard time, I felt extremely alone. Even though I had all of this amazing family, all of this amazing church community, even though I had all of these people around me, he wanted me realize, "No, you need me...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
...like this is the piece of your puzzle that you need."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
My view of God has changed, and it continues to change as he reveals his character to me. But one thing that I would say is he is so kind. He is so present. He is so patient. He is near. He is a healer. He's a friend. He brings beauty from ashes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
He is in all of the little things.
A lot of times I can be stubborn and I'm like, I don't want it this way. And I try to control things subconsciously, and God always puts me in check, and I appreciate that so much about him because his way is better than mine.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
And he knows better.
I think that it's really changed just through getting to know him. Reading the word. Doing life with him...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Kali Lilienthal:
...praying...
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that.
Kali Lilienthal:
...worshiping, and inviting him in every aspect of my life. Invite him in. He wants to be in conversation with you. He meets us all in such a unique way, given our experiences and backgrounds and our memories and all the things that we've been through.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah, he's, he's the best.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so good. I love that. Do life with God. That's so good.
So, I wanna do a little myth busting. Sometimes it seems like mental health challenges or something that we as Christians can gloss over, or we shouldn't experience them, or we can just tell someone, "Oh, you're depressed? Just go pray about it." Why do you think this is such a taboo subject within the church?
Kali Lilienthal:
We tell people to pray, which is super important. I think everybody should be praying. We need to be in the Word. It's so important. Huge, giant piece to our puzzle. But prayer is not a substitute for care.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Kali Lilienthal:
And that's very important. I learned through my experience the importance of being honest with everybody around you. Whether you think it's crazy or whether you think you're the only one. It's very important to be honest with everybody around you. And also, I think the more honest that you are, the easier and more help that you can be given.
Like I said, I had a lot of support around me, a lot of family. I had amazing doctors that have known me for the last 10 years, so they've walked through this with me. But one thing that I would say is don't stop at just prayer and reading the word. That is where you should start.
Seeking God in everything, every decision, every part of your life. But it's not a substitute for the things that you need to do. And one of those is being honest and not having fear of what other people may think. Also, I think specifically praying for the right individuals to come into your life. The, the medical doctors praying for community.
One thing that I really realized is, people are people, we're all broken. We all need Jesus. And so even in the church, there's gonna be brokenness, but the good part is that God never changes that we have him to turn to. Even praying for specific people who have walked maybe through the same thing as you, that can help pour into your life. Looking at it holistically.
God is the most important thing. Seeking his presence. Seeking his Word. Praying. Community. Church. All of that is that foundation. But also, it's making sure that you're doing that with advocating for yourself at the doctor. Telling the truth to those around you, even if you are scared to do that.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that. I think that's a great answer. That prayer is not a substitute for care. There's so much more to caring for people and caring for them well.
Kali Lilienthal:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, I think that that's great. And you gave some really practical tips on how we can care well for our friends and loved ones.
So, in light of that, how can family members and friends support someone who is in a mental health crisis? Like when you think about your situation, what was most helpful to you? Or is there something that you wish someone had told you during your darkest moments?
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah, I definitely can't stress enough the importance of advocating for yourself...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
...and asking those around you to help. For loved ones, I would say be present and don't rush solutions. Mental health is extremely different for each person. Everybody has thoughts and emotions that maybe the other person can't understand, and maybe one solution for me won't be the solution for somebody else. So, I think the really big theme that I would say here is just listen and affirm pain and struggles without minimizing it. You may not fully understand, but you know, "I believe you, I'm here for you." Those sorts things. That's one thing that my family did a really good job about is they just said, “You know, Kali, we, we don't know how we help you, but we're in this with you. We're gonna, figure out how we help, and I'm here for you." And that was really, really special.
I think we need to create a space of community support in churches, especially for families that are going through this. Crisis affects everyone. It's not just the person who is going through it. This was heartbreaking for my family. They had no idea what was gonna happen. Just as much fear that I was experiencing, my parents were too, and my family around me.
So, I think that talking about it more, things like this podcast just hearing people's stories 'cause it is so different and to see how God is using a really hard thing that they go through for his glory. I think creating that safe space to be honest about it upfront.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
And then again, I think I've a lot, is just being super honest with God. Being super honest with yourself and your trained therapist, the support system around you. I think that it first starts with being honest with God and that comes with being honest with too. Knowing that others around you can't help you or understand the magnitude of what you're struggling with if you're not being honest with that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. What would you say to someone listening right now who may be suffering silently? And, and you've said a lot already, but what would you say to somebody who may be suffering silently and feels ashamed of their mental health struggles, especially if they're a Christian?
Kali Lilienthal:
You are not alone. There's no shame in your struggle. Help exists. Healing possible. Jesus is close to you. It says in the scriptures, Jesus is close to the broken hearted. You are deeply loved by God who already knows your story and still chooses you. He already knows the ways in which you're gonna mess up. The things that are happening in your life now, he's in them, he's there. So, he can turn something maybe really hard and dark into something really beautiful in his time and he will do it, so don't lose hope. Declaring God's promises, his word over your life. There's power in the mighty name of Jesus.
Three years ago if somebody would've told me when I was in a hospital bed that I would be here doing a podcast about mental health...
Stephanie Daniels:
Come on.
Kali Lilienthal:
...I would have never thought...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Kali Lilienthal:
...that that would be a thing.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That's good.
Kali Lilienthal:
You know, i'm not ashamed of my story. Don't be ashamed of your circumstances. That's not from the Lord. God has such a plan, just don't give up. That's like the best thing that I could tell anybody right now is don't give up. There is a reason that you may be going through this, and there's hope. You may be able to help somebody else. God has a calling on your life, so whatever you may be facing, just keep fighting. He honors you and he sees everything, and he will use you.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Can you talk briefly about the first day on the job at Joni and Friends?
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And, and what you saw?
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah. I remember I was applying to all these jobs and I kept getting no after, no, after, no. I was at church and a friend of mine mentioned Joni and Friends. So, I went the website, I saw the position and something came over me. I was like, this is everything I would ever wanna do. Like, this is so cool. So, I applied for it, got the job. I started on a Monday, and we had worship. So, my very first 10, 20 minutes of the job was worshiping in the chapel. It's just been the biggest blessing. I know all of those “no’s” before were because God was preparing me for this, role, in this, time here at Joni and Friends. So super grateful for this ministry. Super grateful for Joni.
Stephanie Daniels:
Love it.
Kali Lilienthal:
She's just such a light.
Stephanie Daniels:
So on your first day they took you on a tour?
Kali Lilienthal:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
And you saw one of Joni's paintings. Which one was it?
Kali Lilienthal:
I saw Joni's painting. It's called New Life and it's of a Monarch butterfly. And under it is that 2 Corinthians 5:17 scripture.
Stephanie Daniels:
Come on. I love it.
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah, like I said in the beginning, that's a super special Scripture me. And that's how God first spoke to me. And it's true, like when you have come Christ and God meets you, you are a new creation all of your life is gone and he's renewing you day by day for his purpose and his glory.
Stephanie Daniels:
It's so, it's so cool. It's like you said, God is in the little things. He's in the details and like he says in Isaiah 41, I'm, I'm with you always. Ugh, he's just so good. Okay.
Kali Lilienthal:
He is.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, the toll that these challenges can take on loved ones and friends, closest to the person that's suffering is its own form of trauma. And the person in crisis needs care, but so do the people walking alongside them, you know, depending on how deep their struggle is. And so how do we approach mental health as believers and support the families involved?
Kali Lilienthal:
Yeah, I think it's being aware of the complexity of it. Listening is very important, like I said, because it is so unique to each person. Another thing that I would say is just don't be scared to ask for help as a loved one who's watching a loved one go through this, because we just don't know who is in your circle. A lot of people, do this full time. A lot of people are well equipped and trained in mental health.
Don't be afraid to talk about it. That was one thing that my family and I learned is that we really felt like we had to do it alone. And it wasn't because the church wasn't supportive, the church was extremely supportive. It's just we were so scared. So be brave about talking about it. And also there's a lot of people that can help. Keep showing up, show up every Sunday.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's good.
Kali Lilienthal:
Just keep showing up. Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That's good encouragement. Kali, how are you doing today and what practices are helping you stay grounded? What's giving you joy and hope on hard days? How are you doing?
Kali Lilienthal:
I am doing so much better than I was a few years ago. I can say I haven't had a panic attack in three years, which is a huge blessing. I take it day by day.
I think that being at such a low point, being stripped to nothing and realizing that you have everything. So, there's just a ton of hope in that. And that's not to say that we won't face more challenges in life. We're here and we're living life with the broken parts the world. But what it does come with is hope and security in Jesus, because he is the final word. He has the final say in every situation in your life. So, that brings me a lot of peace. I'm doing well, but like I said, healing isn't something that just happens overnight and it's gonna continue to happen.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Kali Lilienthal:
Day by day we have to die to our old life and be renewed in Christ.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so beautiful. Kali, thank you so much for joining us today. You have been a real blessing to speak with and hear from.
Kali Lilienthal:
Thank you, Stephanie. It has been just such a joy to talk about this and be in discussion with you today and I just appreciate the opportunity to shed light on such a real thing.
Stephanie Daniels:
If this conversation has stirred something in your heart or reminded you that you're not alone in your struggles, we want you to know, we see you, we care. And more importantly, God sees you and he is not forgotten you. And mental health is not a sign of weak faith. It's a part of being human in a broken world. And healing whether it comes through prayer, therapy, community or medication, is something God can work through beautifully. So, if you're walking through a dark valley right now, please don't walk it alone.
Reach out, talk to someone and know that there's no shame in needing help. And you can reach out to us, just visit our website, find out how you can connect with us, or visit the show notes. We would love to hear from you. God bless you for listening today.
© Joni and Friends