If you've ever wondered where is God in the middle of your pain, or if your story has purpose, don’t miss this conversation with Shawn Thornton, our Joni and Friends President and Chief Ministry Officer. Shawn joins host Stephanie Daniels on the podcast to share his raw and redemptive story of growing up with a mother who had suffered a traumatic brain injury. Reflecting on his childhood experiences, which he describes in his book, All But Normal: Life on Victory Road, Shawn recounts how God used challenging life circumstances to shape his heart and call him into ministry, first as a pastor and now in leadership at Joni and Friends.
Shawn Thornton is the President and Chief Ministry Officer of Joni and Friends, an international non-profit organization founded by Joni Eareckson Tada that offers hands-on help and Gospel hope to people living with disabilities. With decades of pastoral experience, Shawn most recently served as Senior Pastor of Calvary Community Church in Westlake Village, California where he supported the development of a disability ministry program that provides an example for churches across the country. He and his wife, Lesli, have three adult children—Jon, Katie, and Megan.
Get your copy of All But Normal: Life on Victory Road
Growing up, Shawn Thornton’s life was anything but normal―but then, so was his mother. After waking from a coma following a car crash, Beverly Thornton’s once sweet and gentle disposition had been replaced by violent mood swings, profanity-laced tirades, and uncontrollable fits of rage. Inside the Thornton house, floors and countertops were piled high with dirty laundry and garbage because Bev was unable to move well enough to clean. Dinners were a Russian roulette of half-cooked meat, spoiled milk, and foods well past their expiration dates. A moment of frustration might prompt her to hurl a knife at Shawn, his brother, Troy, or their dad or to vehemently cuss them out, only to shower them with love and affection moments later as though nothing had happened. And God help the family cat!
On several occasions, Bev even tried to jump out of the car on the highway while Shawn and his brother struggled to keep her inside. Yet this same woman was also a devoted Bible reader, Sunday school teacher, and friend to the elderly, poor, and marginalized wherever she went. How the same woman could be a saint one minute and a nightmare the next was a constant source of frustration for the family. Then one day, after decades of embarrassing outbursts, a surprise discovery finally helps the Thornton family come to grips with Bev’s mysterious condition and brings Shawn to a startling realization that changes the course of his life forever.
A heartwarming coming-of-age story, All But Normal is a powerful reminder that sometimes the “broken” people in our lives are the ones who need fixing the least.
KEY QUESTIONS:
KEY SCRIPTURE:
Psalm 136:1–4:
“Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good. His love endures forever.
Give thanks to the God of gods. His love endures forever.
Give thanks to the Lord of lords: His love endures forever.
To Him who alone does great wonders, His love endures forever.”
Stephanie Daniels:
Hi friends! I’m your host, Stephanie Daniels, and you’re listening to the Joni and Friends Ministry Podcast. We’re sharing hope as we answer real questions about disability. Join us every week for an honest and encouraging conversation, along with practical ways to include people with disability in your church and community. So, grab a seat, and let’s jump in!
Today we are incredibly honored to welcome Shawn Thornton, the former lead pastor of Calvary Community Church in Westlake Village, California, who now serves as President of Joni and Friends. He's also the author of the deeply moving memoir, All but Normal in which he shares the raw and redemptive story of growing up with a mother who had suffered a traumatic brain injury and how that shaped his faith and calling.
And if you've ever wondered where is God in the middle of your pain, or if your story has purpose, today's conversation is for you. Welcome to the podcast, Shawn.
Shawn Thornton:
Thank you, Stephanie. It's great to be here.
Stephanie Daniels:
I'm so glad you're here. I really have been so looking forward to this 'cause I just listened to your book on audiobook and wow.
Shawn Thornton:
You know far too much about me now.
Stephanie Daniels:
I know. It felt like I was coming into this talking to a friend already. So, we'll start with that. Your book, All but Normal, is deeply personal. Can you share a bit about your journey growing up with your mom and how her traumatic brain injury shaped your faith and your calling?
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah. My mom had a, a traumatic brain injury, as you've mentioned, when she was 14 in a car accident.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
She was unconscious for three months and when she woke up, she had to learn to walk and talk all over again. And so, it was an era when there wasn't a lot of speech therapy and occupational therapy, so she had some physical limitations, didn't walk, she could lose her balance very quickly.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
Um, struggled sometimes with just getting up out of a chair, like those kinds of things. And then it also left her with not only those physical challenges, but emotional and mental challenges...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...that caused her to be institutionalized at one time. And she brought into our home a love for Jesus. She loved Jesus before the accident. She even prayed that some of those she loved dearly would come to Christ...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
...in any means through her. And they came to Christ while she was in that coma.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
But she loved Jesus. When she married my dad, then they started the family. I'm the oldest of two boys, but she brought into our home then not only a love for Jesus, but that brokenness of the disability...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…both physically. So, she couldn't drive, she couldn't work, she couldn't do several things like that that a lot of moms were doing in when I was growing up in the seventies in Northern Indiana. But she also brought a lot of chaos because of the emotional stuff.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, there was a lot of pain, a lot of discomfort in our home, a lot of challenging things as you heard as you listened to the audio version of my book. But at the same time, my mom is the one who prayed with me when I trusted Christ as my savior.
And to this day, even though she's been with the Lord now 25 years, she is my greatest spiritual hero because in the midst of her brokenness, I saw a woman who wanted to know, love, and serve Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
So, the books, as you mentioned, the title is All but Normal. But for me, originally the working title in my mind was, How God Shapes a Pastor's Heart.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh yes.
Shawn Thornton:
Both my brother and I are pastors and in this chaotic environment...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...with disability. Of a parent that really shaped my heart for people who are hurting in the church. And then I think God used that to call me into pastoral ministry, called my brother into pastoral ministry. So, it really did shape who I am, how I see people...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
...how I relate. Even when I'm preaching, I think about the people who today maybe had a fight in the car in the way.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yep.
Shawn Thornton:
Or like my mom as you read, sometimes to try to jump outta the car while we were driving to church.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Those kinds of things. So that really does shape then who you are and how you care about people and how you wanna shepherd them.
Stephanie Daniels:
Well, and you mention the Lord using those hardships...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...and what you were living through to shape you. And it's ways that we wouldn't choose walking through the hardship.
Shawn Thornton:
Right.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, what was the most challenging aspect of growing up in a home where your mother has a disability, and how did God meet you in that?
Shawn Thornton:
I think for me, part of the struggle in our home too, is my dad, when he would try to help my mom, he actually ended up throwing more gas on the fire, if you will. Sometimes you try to confront her emotionally...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...or intellectually or he'd just try to, you know, deal with it. And my dad then had a layer that added to the whole situation. So, by the time I was 18, I came outta that home feeling like I was the crud underneath the toenail of the body of Christ. If I had a place in the body of Christ. Just really like, I just, the way the chaotic environment was, I personalized that, I think he's the oldest.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
My brother was the opposite. He came out thinking he was the greatest thing since sliced bread when he came out at 18 of our home. And so over the years, God has humbled him. But God has also reassured me of who I am in Christ.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, I think a lot of families that are affected by disability and children who grew up in a home with a parent with either a physical or cognitive disability, they don't have, always a healthy identity, even if it was a home that wanted to know, love, and serve Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, I really wrestled with my identity in that setting.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
I think the biggest challenge for me coming out of that environment was, "Do I matter to God? Do I have value? Does God love me as I am, even though I went through all this?" And there were times as a teenager, I'd say, “God, why am I in this situation?”
Stephanie Daniels:
Right. Right.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And that makes me think, something that we've talked about on the podcast before, and that I've heard a lot of people say, nothing is wasted.
Shawn Thornton:
Right.
Stephanie Daniels:
And so those hardships
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
That fire, that refining ...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...is, is shaping you and molding you into who you're called to be. But when you're in it, it's like, Lord, why am I in this family? And I wonder, did you ever wonder that? Like...
Shawn Thornton:
Oh yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I wanna be in another family.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
'Cause these people are, you know, like...
Shawn Thornton:
Definitely there were times.
Stephanie Daniels:
How did you deal with that?
Shawn Thornton:
There were times, I remember when my mom was taken out of our home one night, I just turned 14. It was right after Christmas, 1988. Police came and she was put in a mental institution for a time. I remember that night, it was just a crazy night, a lot of chaos, she kinda had a breakdown. I remember laying there just crying, looking up the ceiling in my room saying, "God, why couldn't I have been in my neighbor Lance's family? Why couldn't I have been in one of my cousin's families?" Now I've come to learn. None of those families were completely normal either...
Stephanie Daniels:
Sure, sure.
Shawn Thornton: ..
...because people were all broken people raising broken people as parents and as families. But I really did at times wonder. And now I have no question as to why God had me. You know, the clarity Joni has, the Founder and our leader here at Joni and Friends, the clarity she has about how that chair was actually a gift...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...that God was gonna give her as she lived with quadriplegia. That clarity also helped me as I read her story and heard her story. It helped my mom a lot.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
But that nothing has ever wasted, as you said.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
With the Lord, that God uses every broken moment. He uses the good, bad, and the ugly...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…to mold us and shape us and make us more like Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
It's so hard, but it's so good.
Shawn Thornton:
It is.
Stephanie Daniels:
And it just makes me know we can trust him.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
You know?
Shawn Thornton:
And we don't, we don't need to bring it on ourselves. I’ve met some Christians, they're almost like a self punishment they bring on themselves. They think, "Life has to be hard. I'm gonna make it harder on myself." I always think, why would you do that?
Stephanie Daniels:
Right?
Shawn Thornton:
Why make it more complex.
Stephanie Daniels:
Hard enough.
Shawn Thornton:
It's hard enough.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Just...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
As God gives life to you, sometimes he heals, sometimes he has a different purpose than healing to bring glory to himself, sometimes he restores, and sometimes there are things that remain broken and will be only restored in glory, but he never wastes anything.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
The good, bad, and the ugly he uses for our good, the good of others, and ultimately his glory.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. I'm curious, when you would talk about asking the Lord to heal, did your mom ever ask the Lord for healing? Did you pray for that?
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
What was that like?
Shawn Thornton:
I don't know if I prayed for it very spiritually, if I can say it that way.
Stephanie Daniels:
Uhhuh.
Shawn Thornton:
As a child or a teenager, I think sometimes I would just say, “Make her right,” you know, “change her.” For a while I thought all of her problems were sin based. And even some of the undergraduate education I had in a solid Bible college said that if anybody has any mental health or cognitive or mental disabilities, it's a sin problem, so you need to confront it. So, if it wasn't begging God to heal or make it right, I thought I'll confront her the name of God and she'll confess and repent and move forward. But it took me some time as a young adult to start saying, wait a minute, some of this is not in her control.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And how she copes with it and how we walk with her. But yeah, there were times we begged God for healing. I think she did many times when she'd have breakdowns where she'd be screaming and cussing at the kitchen table, she would sometimes just start talking to God.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
"Why did you allow this to happen?" And she'd start sort of crying out to him. So that happened a lot in our home.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. My heart just would go out to her as I was hearing you tell your story.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, I just have to be frank for a second. When I was growing up, I had a perception of cultural communities. And one of the things I thought was Caucasians didn't struggle. You know, all the ones I know they're just like, their life is great, and the families are just all functional and working. You know? Like...
Shawn Thornton:
I think we don't know as kids, and as we get older and we get to understand, is that like disability...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
...mental health struggles...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…have no boundaries...
Stephanie Daniels:
That's right.
Shawn Thornton:
…when it comes to socioeconomics...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…race, community. It touches every...
Stephanie Daniels:
It touches everyone.
Shawn Thornton:
…every division of people that we come...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…up with as human beings.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And, and that's why I think disability ministry in churches can be such a breakthrough ministry that can spread and actually help develop a heart for other caring ministries and how you come alongside other hurting people, maybe people in poverty, maybe people wrestling, they've been discriminated against. And why the church then can be in that place is that we know that disability affects every pocket of society all around the world.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
And it helps us have an understanding of how God so loves people...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…who struggle with disability.
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I just think it's so beautiful how the Lord works. Your story was just giving all of the struggle and I just, it made me laugh, but also, I was like, man, he's been through so much. Which, like you said, those are the things that develop the pastoral heart in you.
Shawn Thornton:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
That helps you be able to not be afraid to step into any situation, encourage any person. And...
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
…it's in those trenches that we're like, Lord don't send me there, don't put me there. But he does it, and what comes out is so valuable.
Shawn Thornton:
I often, I never did it, but I always, 30 years of pastoring, I always thought I should have written a book or done a teaching series on like, "finish the verse." Because we often go to like a Romans 8:28.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And we say all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. Then we say, "Well that means if my 10-year-old car breaks down today, God will give me a brand-new car tomorrow."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Kind of an idea that all things work together good. We tend to think that verse means then our circumstances are always gonna constantly be improving.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
But if you finish the verse and you go to verse 29, the key is all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. Because then it says those, he predestined, he knew...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
...were gonna be his children. He predestined that they would be conformed to the image of his Son.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
And that he's using all of the stuff in our lives from my childhood to draw me to Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
But then as I came to Jesus, those were the very things he was using to mold me and shape me. As Joni says, and I think I've heard it on this podcast already a couple of times from you and some of your guests, the quote that just resonates with me is, "Sometimes God uses the things he hates...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...to accomplish the things he loves." And I think in my case, he hated a lot of what my mom went through, but he knew how what she went through would shape my life, my brother's life, and then how our lives, including my mom's and my dad's, would touch so many other people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And for my brother and I today as pastors, as people in ministry, it's just overflowing into the lives of others. So, he used what he hates to accomplish what he loves.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. And that makes me think, you know, we hear from so many people on social media, and they get hung up on that.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
When Joni talks about that, and they're like, "So God did that to you?" But I think the better word is he allows it.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
Because he's conforming us...
Shawn Thornton:
Right.
Stephanie Daniels:
...to his image.
Shawn Thornton:
It's actually, we sometimes confuse that his purpose ultimately is not to cause the pain, the purpose is to conform us to the image of his Son.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Where when we're being conformed to the image of his Son, as we walk with Jesus day by day and get to know Jesus day by day and become like him, as the Spirit of God transforms us from the inside out, we then are accomplishing this satisfying purpose that God has for our lives to become like Jesus as we walk, with Jesus. So that, as you know, Joni can have great joy in the midst of pain.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And that, I think that's the key is not, he hates the person, he is trying to punish the person, or make their lives difficult...
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Shawn Thornton:
…he's trying to bring them to a point of great joy and satisfaction.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
That sometimes can't be accomplished with just paving a beautiful path for us.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Shawn Thornton:
Sometimes the path that twists and turns and goes up and down is the place of greatest satisfaction in our walk with Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
Hmm. Man, everybody wants a shortcut.
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
But the, it's the marathon sometimes.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Or the ultra marathon that, but.
Shawn Thornton:
I also find the people who want the shortcuts what happens sometimes is they're disappointed 'cause they keep setting up these expectations that God's gonna do this by Tuesday. God's gonna do this by...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...Wednesday. God's gonna do this by next week. And what happens is, they set up these false assumptions of what God will do when God's already doing something in them...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…if they would look and see what's he doing in the good, bad, and the ugly of your life and how do you find your satisfaction and your joy in him in this. But I find a lot of believers are constantly putting out these expectations of Lord and their own ideals of what...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
...that milestone should look like. And then they're dissatisfied because their circumstances don't get them where they think they ought to be.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That's something that I have personally been struggling with in the last few weeks, and I came across a prayer that really just said, Lord, if your plan is different from my plan...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...God, help me be okay with what your plan is, and forgive me for having my own...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...thing.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
You know, building my own kingdom here 'cause I'm here for you.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
So that's really encouraging. So, Shawn, how did you find your way into full-time ministry?
Shawn Thornton:
You know, it's funny. When I was a kid, there used to be these little books you'd get where one page would be your kindergarten page and you could put your report card in...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
...and you write down your favorite food, your favorite color in kindergarten, what you want to be when you grow up. And in kindergarten it was a pastor. And then I think I drifted to being a veterinarian in first grade and then a fireman in second grade. But around the age of 14, I was in a missions conference in my home church and a man said, "If you're willing to give your life to Jesus for vocational ministry, whatever that means, missionary pastor, whatever he calls you to stand."
There were four of us about the same age who stood up in that little church in northern Indiana. One has been a missionary in Indonesia. Another teaches at Dallas Theological Seminary.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
There's me. And the fourth one has been very active in his local church doing local and global missions through his local church. So, God called a bunch of us one evening in a little church in Indiana.
I really believe God drew me toward ministry and then pointed me toward pastoral ministry as I got to be 17 or 18. So I just knew that's what got wanted. Matter of fact, the day after I stood up in that service, I called a local ministry called Child Evangelism Fellowship, and I said, "Hey, I gave my life to serve Jesus last night. Could I do something for you?" 'Cause I figured after school on the day after I came my life to Jesus, I better start.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Shawn Thornton:
And they helped me start teaching kids in five-day clubs and good news clubs...
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that.
Shawn Thornton:
...and start sharing Jesus at age 14.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, and that was the organization that threw the parties for Jesus?
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right?
Shawn Thornton:
Right.
Stephanie Daniels:
That came to your house...
Shawn Thornton:
...the birthday parties.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah, yep.
Shawn Thornton:
And that was a birthday party through Jesus earlier when I was a little boy that I asked my mom afterwards, "How can I have Jesus in my heart?" And I received Christ through their ministry. Then I learned to teach and share the Gospel with children through that ministry. And...
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that.
Shawn Thornton:
...just felt that call then to keep communicating the Gospel with people.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so great. I wanna encourage our listeners to find your book. Read it, listen to it. I was absolutely captivated hearing you tell the stories. I would go back and play parts for my husband. I'm like, "Listen to this." It was so good.
Okay, so many of our listeners live with disabilities or they care for someone who does. What encouragement would you give them when they may feel unseen or misunderstood? And even in the church.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm. Well, one, I would say, to understand that even if the church doesn't know your specific needs, most local congregations do have a heart for people going through difficulty.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
And they want to help people even if they've not figured out the programming or just how to do it.
I remember when my book came out in 2016, Barnes and Noble, in my hometown of Mishawaka, Indiana, had me for a book signing, and several of the Sunday school teachers from my home church in Mishawaka came and now they were in their eighties. A couple of them had read the book already and they wanted me to sign it. I hadn't seen them in decades. And they came up to the table and they would be apologetic that they didn't know the whole story. 'Cause remember in the book, we didn't tell a lot of church. We didn't even let my grandparents and aunts and uncles know what was really going on in our home.And I got up from the table, walked around, hugged 'em, and said, you didn't have to exactly know what we were going through, but you were there for us.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
You were an oasis for us. So, I would say to folks who are caregivers or people who live with disability, just keep showing up in your local body of believers. Don't think that your life has gone so chaotic that you can't be a part of a local church, because that's where you need to be. That's the body of Christ. Whether they have the program or they're specialists in dealing with mental health or the physical challenges you face, show up with the body believers and watch what God does...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…to use them in your life. Share what you can share that you feel comfortable sharing without painting a loved one with an ugly picture or what have you. We were always afraid of that. But I, I'd say make sure you're connected to a local church, and you're showing up, and they'll find ways to love you, and you'll find ways to love them.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And you'll notice other people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
My mom was drawn to other people. I tell that in the book.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
She noticed the lady that was ignored in the lobby 'cause her lipstick was slightly smeared on one side of her face and her wig was off to the side. And people would ignore her, but my mom was drawn to her.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, I think also people who have disabilities, and are caregivers, are raising children, that the whole family's living with the disability. I think there's an awareness and a sensitivity you're gonna bring to the congregation.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
It's gonna bless others and...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
...others are gonna bless you.
Stephanie Daniels:
That is so true. And I love how you shared the different times your mom, you know, you guys might be trying to get out the door and she's like, "Oh wait, I've gotta get this book to give to so-and-so because this is gonna bless her for what she's going through." She just was thinking about other people and trying to love them, and she was walking in purpose.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
You know?
Shawn Thornton:
Definitely.
Stephanie Daniels:
In the midst of her...
Shawn Thornton:
She noticed people, others wouldn't notice. She would go up to someone who maybe was in a wheelchair and had slurred speech and she would talk to them and look at them and there was no difference in her mind to their situation and hers. She treated them with the same love I think Jesus wanted them to see in sense from her.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. So sweet. Even though she had her own hangups and misgivings or whatever, she sounded just like such a sweet lady.
Shawn Thornton:
She really was. She really was deeply sweet. And as you know, in the book, there could be a lot of chaos...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...that came from her brokenness. But in those moments when God gave her clarity, she could be extremely sweet.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And people loved her.
Stephanie Daniels:
And she was in the Word.
Shawn Thornton:
She was in the Word. You remember I talk about how she struggled with just writing her name?
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Or highlighting in her Bible. It could take her five minutes to highlight one verse in her Bible because her motor skills, her...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...fine motor skills had been affected by the accident. So, she'd highlight and yet I think at the same time when she'd highlight that verse, she was almost going over it in her mind too. There was a depth that my mom had in her walk with Christ that she wouldn't have had, had the brokenness not come into her life.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And I think there are a lot of people like that who have brokenness and pain and disability, or mental health struggles, who in the midst of that, they have a very sweet connection with God.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
That is hard for others to even fully grasp.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
She had that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Sounds like it. Definitely sounds like it. Well, how do you think that God uses suffering particularly long-term or invisible suffering to refine and reveal his purpose in our lives?
Shawn Thornton:
I think he wants us to understand that he could take us home and take us from that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
He could, when we receive Jesus, we could be translated into glory. I remember leading a child of Christ when I was a teenager and they will opened their eyes and the little boy looked at me and he said, "I'm still here?" Because he thought he was going to heaven. You know, if he asked Jesus and his heart, he go to heaven...
Stephanie Daniels:
He was ready to go.
Shawn Thornton:
He was ready to go. There's a reason though, God leaves us here and there's another reason why God allows us to go through the same things our neighbors are going through. Is so that we're not kept in a little bubble.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Not everyone gets the healing that often people experience, and that brings glory to God. But sometimes God wants us in our lives to reflect our neighbors, our coworkers, our friends, that yeah, we're going through the same cancer battle you're going through, or your sister went through, or we're dealing with the same layoff that just happened to your son and his job. And yet they look at us and say, wait, you're going through the same stuff, but you have hope. You have purpose.
I think the Lord wants us to see that he's left us here for a purpose. That we would shine for his glory, not just in the wonderful times we can tell about this wonderful provision of God or this great blessing he did for us. But how God met us in our darkest moments because the world around us doesn't have that relationship.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, in our lives, we have an opportunity in brokenness and pain, to lean in and press into the Lord and let him meet us in those moments. And then the world around us is gonna say, "Wait a minute, how do you have joy in this? How do you with tears, you still seem to have a satisfaction in life." And that only comes from God. So, we get to say, look, it wasn't me kinda like the blind man in John 9. I don't know. I once was blind, but now I see. I don't know. That was a dark time, but God got us through it as we leaned on him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And the world is hungry to hear that kind of hope from the followers of Jesus. And I think that's part of the reason why. Our lives aren't picture perfect after we come to Jesus. And why he does allow suffering and pain, and he has purpose in it, is so that our light would shine even brighter to those...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...who are wrestling in the darkness of pain and suffering. Not just in sin, but in pain and suffering, and need to see the light of Christ in us.
Stephanie Daniels:
Hmm. Yeah. That's so good. Were there moments when you doubted God's goodness because of your mother's condition? And how did you wrestle through that?
Shawn Thornton:
I think I always saw God as good. I don't think I ever doubted his goodness. I think I doubted his nearness more than his goodness.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
I remember wishing he was there with us in some more visible or obvious way. So, I always believed God was good, so I always cried out to him. But I sometimes felt like he'd forgotten us or overlooked us.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Because a lot of Christianity emphasizes a formula approach, right? So, if you read your Bible and pray before you leave the house in the morning, then you're gonna have a good day.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And if you do that every week, you're gonna have a good week. And if you do that for a year, you're gonna have a good year. And if you do that for your life, you're always gonna have good things happening. It's almost like a blessing rod. If you had your devotional time and you went to church and you did the right things, then you'll be problem free.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Shawn Thornton:
And, and I felt like, "We're in a lot of problems here, Lord, do you know that?"
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm, yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
"I know you're good, but why aren't we feeling it? Why aren't you here with us?" And then in the quiet times when I'd be alone, even as a kid. I don't even know how to explain it. It's been very hard to put words to this. I've tried in the book, I've tried in many occasions, but God would meet that 8-year-old little boy, or that 10-year-old little boy, or that 14-year-old, teenager. He'd meet me and I would just know he was present. And in the tears, there would be a calmness because of his nearness. But I was always begging for him to be in this situation.
And one of the things I try to encourage people to remember is that God is always with you. He never left you. You might feel like he's not there, but he is right there. You can cry out to him in the darkness, and he will hear you.
Stephanie Daniels:
My goodness. That's really encouraging, he's so faithful to, like you said, show up in those moments. And I think I was curious about what did that look like? Were there times where you just...
Shawn Thornton:
My dad, sometimes my mom would have breakdowns. He would say, boys go to your rooms. And we'd go in the room, and he'd try to calm her down. In the room while I'd hear her screaming and crashing and fighting and I would just talk to the Lord. And it's hard to explain how I knew he was there with me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Because even while I was crying, there'd be something deep inside that ministered to me, a very quiet voice just saying, "You're okay."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
"I've got you. You're okay. I've got you." It was just kind of the sense I felt. Those were times in my life when I felt the Lord the nearest that I've ever felt him...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…is when I was crying out because he felt like he was the farthest I'd ever felt him. But then he would show up. And it wouldn't be like hours of feeling like he's right there, but it'd just be enough that it'd be okay, "God, you got me…
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…I can rest in you." Even as a little boy or a teenager and eventually a young adult.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, God is so good. He's so faithful. I was listening to Psalms this morning and just the consistent theme that I heard that stood out to me was his love endures forever.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
And just, in the moments where you need it.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
It's there and it's always there.
Shawn Thornton:
I think that's, that Psalm says, his love endures forever.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
It says his statement that his love endures forever.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
And it's my favorite Hebrew word. It's the word "hesed." You almost clear your throat as you're saying it, but it means faithful, loving, kindness. It's used 248 times in the Old Testament.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
Faithful love, and it's like when you talk about agape or agapao in the New Testament.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
Being that highest form of love, you know, phileo love, Aeros love, but then there's agape love.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Well, hesed, as awful as it sounds when you say it is actually an even deeper and higher love that God never gives up on us. I think I felt that as a kid. I knew that deep in my, my, my mind, my heart, that his love endures forever.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And I love how that Psalm just keeps repeating that.
Stephanie Daniels:
I mean, that really stood out to me this morning. I was like, okay, maybe I needed to hear that.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's a good word.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
That it just...
Shawn Thornton:
Hesed!
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yes. And it just never fails and oh, he's just so kind, a faithful Father, and I love what he formed in you through your hardship. And I'm so glad that we now at Joni and Friends, and the people that we serve, are gonna get to benefit from all that the Lord has done in you. Kind of like with Joni.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I mean, obviously we're here because of what the Lord has done in her.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
But, he's brought you to the picture and I'm just excited for the future of the ministry and...
Shawn Thornton:
Me too.
Stephanie Daniels:
...what, what he's gonna do through you.
Shawn Thornton:
Me too.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Well, pastor Shawn, so far, it's been so great having you here and I'm so encouraged already by so much of what you've shared, your story and just all that the Lord has done in you. So rich, so good. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Shawn Thornton:
Thank you, Stephanie. I've enjoyed this. It's good to talk about how the Lord has been good throughout my life.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And when I needed him to be near, he was there.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, you asked great questions, and I loved our conversation today.
Stephanie Daniels:
Thank you.
Shawn Thornton:
Thank you.
Stephanie Daniels:
Thank you.
We hope this conversation touched your heart today. If it did, consider sharing it with someone who might be encouraged as well. And don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcasting platform so you never miss an episode. Next week I'm continuing my conversation with Joni and Friends President, Shawn Thornton. Join us as we talk about his heart on establishing a church culture that welcomes people with disabilities and celebrates inclusion in the body of Christ. See you then.
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