Shawn Thornton, our Joni and Friends President and Chief Ministry Officer returns to the podcast to share his experience and insight on disability ministry in the church. Raised with disability in his immediate family, Shawn has a unique perspective on how the church should care for people who live with disability. Hear how God has used his personal experience to grow him as a pastor and prepare him to reach the global church through his role with Joni and Friends.
Shawn Thornton, our Joni and Friends President and Chief Ministry Officer returns to the podcast to share his experience and insight on disability ministry in the church. Raised with disability in his immediate family, Shawn has a unique perspective on how the church should care for people who live with disability. Hear how God has used his personal experience to grow him as a pastor and prepare him to reach the global church through his role with Joni and Friends.
Prior to leading Joni and Friends, Shawn served as Senior Pastor of Calvary Community Church in Westlake Village, California, where he helped launch a dynamic disability ministry that has become a model for churches nationwide. He also serves on the Board of Directors of Awana Clubs International and on the Board of Trustees of Los Robles Hospital in Thousand Oaks, California.
Shawn and his wife, Lesli, live in Southern California and have three grown children, Jon, Katie, and Megan (who is married to Wes).
KEY QUESTIONS:
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Stephanie Daniels:
We are back for part two of our conversation with Shawn Thornton, former lead pastor of Calvary Community Church, who now serves as President of Joni and Friends. On our last episode we heard his redemptive story of growing up with a mother who had suffered a traumatic brain injury. Today he returns to share how his personal experience with disability has shaped his faith and calling in ministry.
Shawn, it is great to have you back for the second part of our conversation today, we'll just jump right in. How did you establish a church culture that welcomes people with disabilities?
Shawn Thornton:
You know, it's something that I actually learned from others, particularly families with disability, was kind of the first place where I began to see through their eyes. Some friends who had kids with special needs began to share some of the hurdles they faced.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
Even from maybe young man with autism who, the space when they walked in the lobby was too big and it was overwhelmed, sensory wise. I started to see and understand what families and individuals are going through, and then we got some volunteers who understood that perspective through their educational background or experience.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
So, I think it really came through the eyes of other people recognizing that families affected by disability are gonna approach the building itself and the whole experience with a whole different sensory-panel of experiences. And so, beginning to understand, "Oh, people see this differently," began to help me say, “We need to do something different as a church.”
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Did your background, I'm sure it lent to that...
Shawn Thornton:
Yes. Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
But just creating that space for people.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah, I think there's probably two parts to it. The specific of families affected by disabilities came through the eyes of other people. Then from my own experience, knowing that I, I think it's a, a broader issue for me was that people are coming in, and they look like everything's going great.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Some of them, and actually there is dysfunction in the home.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
That could include disability in my mom's case, traumatic brain injury that had emotional and physical ramifications. But I think that just knowing, matter of fact, if you read the preface to my book is by Joni.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
I think it's the best part of the book, actually, the forward. But she says in there that she pictures me looking out at the congregation on a Sunday and realizing...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…that a bunch of people come in with private pain that nobody knows about, and I'm shepherding these lives. So, I think that too was a part of the mindset of how do we welcome people who are struggling with life in general, and then specifically those struggling with disability.
Stephanie Daniels:
Gosh, that's so important too, having that understanding. I'm sure that was, such a blessing for your congregation to know that you had that understanding.
Shawn Thornton:
It also took some coaching. We got a few staff members, then Joni and Friends actually partnered with us as a church to help us relaunch our special needs ministry.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
Probably now 15 years ago. They brought some staff to us, then we hired some staff. Eventually the staff that was helping us from Joni and Friends worked themselves outta a job, and it was all either volunteers or staff we'd hired. And they would coach me and say things like, you know, when that person screamed out while you were preaching, that's a young man who has some disabilities and that's just his way of expressing himself. And you kinda looked annoyed when it was going on, you might not wanna look annoyed when you hear that voice.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, okay.
Shawn Thornton:
So, even can got to the point a few Easters ago, I remember I was at a very important moment in the Easter message, the worship center was full, and this voice cries out and he's a 25-year-old man, but he squeals like a very young child.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And the noise just echoed in the room, and I just paused 'cause it was a kind of a quiet moment in how I was talking. It just disrupted everything. And I said, we love that voice. That's Dongo. We know his voice. Thank you Dongo for letting your voice be heard.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
In the house of the Lord. And, people came up to me and said they love that. Even people who didn't have a child or someone affected by disability. So just trying to create an environment...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…where that's not a disruption.
Stephanie Daniels:
It's welcome.
Shawn Thornton:
That's a sweet voice.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
That's a sweet voice.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that you did that because I've been in services where our pastor would do that...
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
…with the families that he knew and you knew it took a lot for them to get to church.
Shawn Thornton:
Oh yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Just him acknowledging and blessing...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
…that family and the church, everybody embraced it. And embraced them.
Shawn Thornton:
Because it makes it normal for everybody.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
It makes it typical for everyone.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, important.
Shawn Thornton:
And I wanna go back to though those were some staff members who I think had some insights and they would just whisper to me at different times, "Hey, today in the service, if you noticed, if you had just made a positive comment, a split second would've changed the atmosphere."
And so, it was something I was taught by people who had a heart for this area of ministry particularly, really helped me develop a heart for this area of ministry. I think that's important in...
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely.
Shawn Thornton:
...in terms of disability ministry development in a local church is, some people think they come knowing everything, but you might wanna listen to the families and then the people who work with those families. And learn from them some of the most basic things of disability etiquette...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
…and compassion.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And I learned a lot through the eyes of others. Most importantly it made the cultures change in our church.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
To be, everybody embraced those noises and sounds.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that. And I love that you're sharing this. I'm a big proponent of our guests sharing practical things that...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
...we can do as the body of Christ to help change the culture or embrace people in our churches. And maybe we have pastors listening today that say, "I want to do this better.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I wanna love people better and I wanna help shape that culture, that perspective, in the hearts and minds of our people."
Shawn Thornton:
One, one of those early lessons I learned when we were trying to reestablish this ministry. Had been a ministry, it was kinda struggling, but we wanted to really give a good fresh start. We did a survey of our congregation and said, "How many of you be willing to serve in a special needs ministry?" And then we wanted to get the families and find out how many kids and students, teenagers we'd have, and even adults we'd have to minister to.
So, we put this out, we had several thousand on a weekend, 300 said they'd volunteer, which was just phenomenal. And we got like five kids listed.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
And I remember saying to Doug Mazza, who was the President here at Joni and Friends at the time I said, "I'm so disappointed. Why won't these families, I could see at least in each service, 50 or 60 families affected by disability and they wouldn't identify themselves."
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And he having a special needs son, he said, "The reason is because a lot of these families get jerked around by churches and schools and community groups who are well intended and start something, try to get something going, and then when it gets a little hard, they back away. So, these families are sitting back waiting to see if you're serious…
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
…And if you're gonna really develop something that's sustainable." So, I'd say to pastors listening is that disability ministry isn't something you do one Sunday and then it just clicks and it keeps going. It's gotta be kind of the nose to the grindstone. If you get two or three kids the first week, just keep serving those families and believe me, they'll invite another family. And then we started reaching Muslim families, Jewish families came to respite programs, Buddy Breaks, and then they started to come to Christ. Families that had been away from the Lord came to Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels: Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
I mean, it's amazing what God did in that disability ministry, but our team got committed too. When Doug said that, we said, okay, this means we gotta be in this for the long haul.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And it took about six months for some of those families to sort of say, "Oh, by the way, we were here when you did that survey, but we wanted to make sure it was gonna stick around before we brought our son or daughter who maybe is gonna have sensory issues in the space.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
It's not gonna be easy for them to settle in, so you can't just have us come and then you not have it." So...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
That, that was a lesson early on that I'd share with other pastors who are thinking about or developing a disability ministry. Make sure you're in it for the long haul for those families, and you don't just jerk them around.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That is such a great point. As you mentioned that, kinda leads to this next question I have is, what can the church do better to love, support, and include people living with disabilities, not just as people to serve, but as vital parts of the body of Christ?
Shawn Thornton:
I think it's allowing families to be a part of every aspect of the church life. So, if you're in a small group and a couple of young families together, four or five young families meeting in a home and somebody's bringing their daughter who is on the spectrum...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And maybe is not able to sit still the whole time or just try to make that all normal. In other words, let those families be a part of the regular life and routine. When you do that, it begins to reshape the culture. And I think for us, we discovered at Calvary Community Church where I served as pastor, that it not only reshaped the culture around families affected by disability, and individuals living with disability, but we saw it shape our compassion even into dealing with those struggling with financial shortcomings, dealing with job loss, or a family in crisis over their marriage. It became kind of this contagious heart of compassion for anybody who wasn't fitting the typical Christian mold, if you will.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
You know what I mean?
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
The picture perfect Christian family. The disability ministry really helped to broaden our compassion for all kinds of people who could be marginalized.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
It was, it was a way to move in that direction for everybody. Whether it was racial issues or issues around men and women, or it was issues around how people are doing socioeconomically...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
There was a compassion that came the more our disability ministry took root in our body and spread. And every aspect of church life folks and families with disabilities were included, the more compassionate we became as a church to everyone who was on the margins.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. I love that. A friend of mine said something about that the other day and I wrote it down. I feel like Jesus was in the margin, you know?
Shawn Thornton:
Oh, yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I mean, we can't be afraid to ...
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
...step into the margins.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I feel like the hardship that you lived through made you unafraid to do that.
Shawn Thornton:
I think so. It gave me courage to want to lean in to help people who could otherwise feel left out.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And that included families with disability.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. How would you encourage somebody who is living in the midst of, I like to say a seemingly impossible hardship where you just don't see...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
…an end to that.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
What's an encouragement you would give?
Shawn Thornton:
I, I go to three little Psalms, three Psalms, one's not a little, but three Psalms that David did when he was in the cave Cave of Adullam on the run from King Saul. He ends up having been drooling in his beard before the King of the Philistines.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And he's on the run from Saul, who's threatened by David's popularity and notoriety. So, he's trying to kill David. And David ends up in a cave all by himself for three or four months we believe. And he writes, Psalm 146, Psalm 57, and Psalm 34. And early, we believe he writes the first of those Psalms, Psalm 146. And he writes, basically, my life stinks.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
Lord this hurts. And I think the first thing I tell people is, it's okay to tell God how you feel. I did that as a kid laying there when my mom was going through stuff, I would just say, "God, this feels awful. Why am I in this home?" But then David, just a month or two in scholars believe he wrote Psalm 57. And he begins, life is hard I feel like I'm sinking, I'm overwhelmed, I'm about to be crushed. But then he starts saying, but I'm gonna praise you.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
I'm gonna sing about you among the nations, what nations? He's in a cold, dark cave being hunted by the current king and on the run after drooling in his beard before his enemies. But he tells God how he feels. Then he praises God for who he is.
So, I tell people when you in a situation like that, just let God know how you feel, and then praise God for who he is. 'Cause no matter what's going on in your circumstances, in that dark moment you're in where it seems like it's hopeless and you're overwhelmed and feel like you're gonna be crushed by life, he hasn't changed. He is still the same yesterday...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…today and forever. And he has not changed. So, tell God how you feel. Praise God for who he is.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
'Cause nothing's changed about him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And then David he comes out of the cave, we believe in Psalm 34, it says in 2 Samuel in the narrative part of the story, that all the people in Israel who were in debt, who were discouraged, and who were depressed, came to the cave where David was and David becomes the captain over them. He becomes their leader and he steps outta the cave. And one of the things he says in Psalm 34:8, in that final Psalm from that season in his life is, "Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And so, he goes from telling God how he feels to praising God for who he is. And then he honors God by serving others. He looks and says, okay, I'm still in the cold dark cave, but you brought people to the entrance of my cold dark damp cave experience and now I'm gonna serve them. So, I'd say tell God how you feel, praise God for who he is, and then look around...
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
…for somebody who needs hope in their life that you can bring them in that moment of their darkness. And I think God really meets us in those moments.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
I can't say, as a kid, I sat there and said, when mom was going through a bad night, or we were having a bad evening at our house, I can't say that I said, "Okay, I'm gonna tell God how I feel. I'm gonna praise God for his, and I'm gonna honor God by serving others." But I can tell you that's what God processed in my heart and life just like David in that cave of lum. So, I, I'd say start with telling God how you feel. He can handle it. That's what's beautiful about the Psalms.
Stephanie Daniels:
So good. Yeah. Yeah. It is so true, 'cause you know, it makes us feel not so isolated being able to go back and read how David just like poured out his heart.
Shawn Thornton:
Months of isolation.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, my goodness. I feel like the Psalms is just one big journal entry.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm. It's a diary.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
A diary that gives real life and reminds us that God made us emotional beings.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And he knows it's difficult, and he gave us this entire wonderful book of emotions and heartache and high points and low points. I think the Psalms are a great source...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…for that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. So beautiful. So, when you were pastoring, did your childhood experience shape the way that you and your church kind of approach disability ministry, or accessibility?
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
I, I would say it, it told me, first of all, there are people who are going through ordinary everyday lives...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…who are gonna come with issues and problems.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Some of them maybe can be corrected, but some of 'em are part of the scars of life...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…the brokenness of life that cannot be. And church is gonna be messy. If you think church is gonna be neat and clean, you can put a tight little bow on it and it's all gonna be beautiful. It's beautiful in that God brings the brokenness together and makes beauty from the ashes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And he brings strength from the struggle.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And that's where the beauty comes from. So, I think I learned that as a kid and in that church where some of the people in they read my book didn't think they really cared for us. They really had. Even though they didn't know.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
They were showing up, being present, and extending the love of Christ and hope of Christ to us as a family. And maybe we did that for them too. Some of them would say.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
So, I think it really did inform, even down to how we approach disability ministry, that we're gonna have an open armed approach to anyone and everyone.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
And see what God does with that.
Stephanie Daniels:
It's beautiful. Well, and I love one of the things you talk about in your book was you guys had gone to church on a Sunday night maybe, and it was testimony time.
Shawn Thornton:
Oh yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And your mom stands up and you're like, "What is she gonna say?"
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
And I think that that is, you know.
Shawn Thornton:
We were always, at a moment, I think, you know, she'd start a sentence and you thought, “Oh, a foul word's coming next and this church hasn't heard this like this.” And then she would just use a different word, and we'd move on and. Almost my dad, my brother, and I looked down and pew at each other, like, "Whew. That got close." And even for her, she would try to stand when it was testimony time, but because her fine motor skills were limited, she'd grab the pew in front and so she'd try to get up and somebody step up.
Stephanie Daniels:
Beat her to it. Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And she'd start getting frustrated. And we always knew when she got frustrated, she kinda lost control. Then when she'd get her final moment stand up, we were like, "Oh no, these people are gonna hear it now." And the Lord just sort of, the Spirit always quieted her heart in those moments.
Stephanie Daniels:
Well, and I love those moments. I feel like that's when the Lord is kind of teaching everyone...
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
…patience and compassion.
Shawn Thornton:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
You know, and, and you do get to see just him.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And these people that, you know, they're different than us, but the Lord is still using them. You know?
Shawn Thornton:
Yes. And in, when my mom went to be the Lord 25 years ago, a lot of people from that little church in Indiana who showed up at the funeral home the night before the funeral to just greet us as a family, relayed how her testimonies blessed them. They would talk about a specific thing she said or a verse she quoted. When Dad and Troy and I were worrying about what she was about to say, the Lord was actually using her to speak to people. That's another lesson I've learned as a pastor is...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
God is gonna use the most unlikely people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
We had a dear sweet little girl named Kira who was a part of the special needs ministry at Calvary. She couldn't speak, she had trouble walking. But at about seven years old, she was just beginning to walk. She was beginning to use like an iPad to speak.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
Kira passed in her sleep just over a year ago. And the stories of the people and volunteers and greeters who said, "She touched my life, she impacted my life." They just so encouraged me. And it sort of surprised me. I don't know why they surprised me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
But that a little life like that could make a deep impact for Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Among people was incredible.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh yeah. I, yeah. You mentioned that. It makes me think I went to a memorial service for a little guy that came to Family Retreat in Texas. Just one time last year was their first time. And he passed away. I guess back in December, sometime January, but his, his service was packed.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
And the impact, I mean, I have on his bracelet now.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I mean, he's so precious. He'd just tell people, I'm so glad you're here. So, he just, and he'd go sit on a lap and move to another lap and, and in his six years he was making an impact.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
And so, yeah. I love that. You know, we talk about that here with Joni and Friends. I think it's either Steve Bundy that said it, or maybe Joni even, but like the body of Christ, it's not operating in its fullest capacity until everybody...
Shawn Thornton:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
…with a disability has found their place in the body.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
And they're serving and they're involved because they bring a lot to the table that can bless.
Shawn Thornton:
I think we have a lot of fears in the church...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
…that they will be more of a disruption than a help.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And there were churches that I knew of in our region who would tell families, "You just need to go to Calvary because we just can't handle your child here." And it would be squealing in a service. And I can understand in some cases where maybe it's so distracting and maybe the size of our ministry was able to absorb some of that.
But at the same time, to say to people who are plugged in part of the body life of the church, "Hey, because of your child, you gotta go somewhere else." That, that would break my heart. I would rather work with those churches. That's part of the reason I think God called me to become the President of Joni and Friends...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...in this season, is I have an opportunity to help shape the global church in how local churches all around planet Earth, welcome...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…engage, serve and mobilize individuals and families affected by disability. I think there is a deep blessing churches are missing out on, unless they...
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely.
Shawn Thornton:
...fully embrace all the families that come with whatever brokenness they come with.
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely. Well, you mentioned that and you're here now at Joni and Friends as our president and we're so grateful that you are and that you answered the call. And I just wanna know if you can tell us how you met Joni and what brought you here?
Shawn Thornton:
Well, meeting Joni is interesting because I've known about Joni since I was probably about 10 or 11.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
My mom got ahold of Joni's book...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
…in the late seventies and just after it came out and she read it and Joni became her inspiration. So, my mom would have these emotional blowups or breakdowns, whatever you wanna call 'em, at the kitchen table or in the living room or wherever we were. And then when she would finally release all the energy and she'd kind of come back down out of this explosion she would say, "You know, though, if God can help Joni Eareckson," she wasn't married yet to Ken, so she'd say, Joni Eareckson, "if God could help Joni Eareckson be able to do well in life if, if Joni can make it, so can I."
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And she would say that quite frequently.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And when she was institutionalized she called in the morning and I picked up the phone. She was in this mental health facility and my dad was going to visit her for the first time since she'd be taken out of our house. And she said, "When your dad comes, make sure he brings my Bible." It was the Bible she took to church. It had all the bulletin stuffed in it. And she'd underlined a lot of stuff. And she said, "and they say, I can have one more book, and I would like him to bring the Joni book." So, when she went to the mental institution, she wanted the Bible and Joni's story because Joni's story was so inspiring...
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…to her. So, throughout my life and my ministry career, I had this deep respect for Joni without even meeting her because she brought hope into our house.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
And then when I arrived at Calvary Community Church in Westlake Village, I had no idea that Joni and Friends was one exit away. I had no idea where Joni and Friends was, where Joni lived. And I got to this big empty office. My boxes hadn't arrived yet from back east. I don't know anybody, know, very few people west of the Mississippi, let alone in California. And I get in this office and there's nothing on the shelves.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Nothing on the desk. I sit down and there's one envelope in the center of the desk and it says Pastor Shawn Thornton. I open it and it's a note from Joni and Ken that says, we don't attend Calvary, but we have a lot of friends who do we love Calvary Community Church. We've been praying for the right pastor to come. We don't know you, but we're praying for you that God will use you in this place. And I remember sitting there reading that thinking of my mom, that Joni is right here nearby and she's welcomed me with this note. And I remember the tears hit that note.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Just as I was welcomed to California, I was 44 years old or so, and I was really stunned by the emotions I was overwhelmed with. So, I call that my first time to meet Joni, although it was probably a month or two later that I actually was invited over here and got to meet her at the office. But that note meant the world to me.
I told Joni just a couple weeks ago, will you do me a favor if you get to heaven before me? I don't know how all this works, but if my mom doesn't know we're working together, would you tell her when you meet her that we got to work together? And she told me she would. Because that's how I met Joni through my mom, finding hope in our home...
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely.
Shawn Thornton:
…because of her story and her faith in Christ through whatever she was going through.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That, I mean, if Joni is a picture of anything, it is perseverance...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
…and persistence and hope. I see that on social media, people that write in and just, they're so thankful for her example and how she...
Shawn Thornton:
You know, part of it is I think if you listen to Joni over time, you read her writings, she actually, while not being improper in what she's describing. She's pretty transparent.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
I heard a radio broadcast that she was recording. I was sitting in the booth a couple of weeks ago and she was talking about a young man who had become a quadriplegic.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And he had passed.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And she talked about a relationship with him and how she said, we were talking, you know, wheelchair tires, we were talking, catheters we're talking. She just throws in this different language. And she's just talking about saying, we had these conversations. And then in the book that Joni and Ken wrote about their marriage, she talks about some of his struggles with mental health.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Difficulty that sometimes she'd even try to take a speaking engagement early on in their marriage to avoid being pulled down by what he was struggling with. And she said, but the Lord taught her and she grew. And I mean, to have them share that kind of transparency without making it about her.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Or making it about them and their story. Is very impressive.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
It's not some, "Hey, I'm always smiling, there's no pain.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Shawn Thornton:
It's all great. There's never an issue." She's pretty clear that sometimes she's singing in the middle of deep pain...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
...and...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
...hardship.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. It's so true. And like you were saying that your mom said, "If Joni Eareckson could do it, I know I can too." And that's what Joni's transparency and her example of continuing to push forward just speaks volumes to people. I probably see that phrase especially on our YouTube channel all the time.
Shawn Thornton:
The phrase about the transparency?
Stephanie Daniels:
If Joni can do it...
Shawn Thornton:
Oh, if Joni could. Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
I can do it too. It's true. And it does, it points people to Joni's source.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah, I was gonna say...
Stephanie Daniels:
It's Jesus.
Shawn Thornton:
...because if you pick up anything she's written, you see any video clip that we share on YouTube, you hear any one of those daily radio broadcasts, it is so clear that she's gonna talk about I have pain.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yep.
Shawn Thornton:
But I only can get through the day and flourish through the day and find joy in the day and satisfaction in the day, because of Jesus.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
She's so clear. Yeah. It's not, look at me, let me be your hero. It's nothing like that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
It's, "Hey, follow me friends," as she calls them friends.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
"Follow me as we follow Jesus together.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
And we'll find our deepest satisfaction in him. Whatever your challenges in life, if it's a physical, cognitive disability or any other challenge, we'll find hope and we'll find a place in the body of Christ. Let's follow Jesus together."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's…
Shawn Thornton:
…the spirit you get from her.
Stephanie Daniels:
Well, you know, here at Joni and Friends, we want people to find hope. And so, I'm curious, what does hope mean to you in the context of lifelong disability and struggle?
Shawn Thornton:
I think some people believe that the only hope you have in disability, or physical, or struggles that you might have, is being completely free of those things and heal from them.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And sometimes God does choose to heal people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
We, we know the stories of God doing that. But it's not about how much faith we have or don't have that brings about that healing or not. It's about the divine purpose of God.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
When the blind man is approached about what's happened and who he is. Jesus talks about he was made blind so that my works might be seen, and my father might be glorified ultimately. That's the purpose in it. So, I think we find hope in resting in that God is God and we are not.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
That he knows what's best and no matter what he allows into our lives, as we walk by faith and lean on him, he will give us the strength and the grace to get through that day. And then when we wake up tomorrow, he's gonna give us the strength...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…to make it through that day. And isn't it interesting, in 2 Corinthians we read that his strength is made perfect in our weakness.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Shawn Thornton:
And in the times I'm the weakest and I experience his strength. I think, wait, I couldn't really have experienced his perfect strength except in my weakness. And so, I think people who deal with lifelong struggle can find hope in God.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And hope in who he is and how he can walk with them, holding tightly to their hand. Not based on if their circumstances improve or not, or healing comes or not, but in who God is and that you can get through today through his strength. That's made perfect in our weakness.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That's so good. So, Shawn, your book highlights how your story is one of redemption, even in the midst of ongoing difficulty. So, what does redemption look like for someone who may never experience physical healing in this life?
Shawn Thornton:
I think the ultimate redemption or hope for someone who's going through some sort of physical struggle or disability in this life is that there is a time coming when we'll all be made whole in Christ.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah, yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
You know, in the, in the power of the resurrection, all things are gonna be made new. And I love Revelation 21 that talks about how all things are gonna be made new. He's gonna wipe away every tear. There'll be no more sorrow, no more pain.
And I think there is this hope that is ours and is real, that you keep your eye on, that is key to living today. And then in the day to day, to watch what God does in your life, to bless someone else and to use other people to bless you. So that in those moments when we walk through that brokenness and that pain today, and we're surrounded by God's people and they're ministering to us, and we're ministering to them, we get to be a light to the world, I think you find that sense of redemption.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
As we talk about with Joni all the time, she talks about the wheelchair is a gift from God. That's, that's a hard place to get to.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
But that's a place of redemption. The Lord is redeeming in her the results of that accident when she dove in that lake in Maryland.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And it's the same in my mom's case, she left a legacy and impact in her sons, but she left a legacy and impact in people that still every now and then on Facebook will say, Hey, I remember your mom when I attended Twin Branch Bible Church in Mishawaka, Indiana, and I never got to tell you after your mom went home to be with the Lord, how much she meant to me. There's an ongoing, even beyond our lifetime, a testimony for the Lord of how he worked in our lives in the pain and in the disability.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just curious, what helped you kind of gain perspective, or helped you heal from what you lived through? Did writing your story help or counseling or reading the word?
Shawn Thornton:
Really all the above.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And I, I would say I'm still healing, and I won't be completely healed until I'm with Jesus. I carry some of the things that were difficult in my childhood with me. I have had some good counseling of friends and even a counselor that spoke into my life in a season.
I think the real turning point for me was as I came out of our house, I mentioned to you earlier, that I felt like, Stephanie, I was the crud underneath the toenail of the body of Christ.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And I was reading a book in Bible college where the author said, God loves you for who you are. He knows every filthy thought you've ever thought, everything you've ever done, every wayward straying idea in your mind and heart, he knows you and he loves you as you are completely. And I don't know why. I mean, somebody could have told me that before, but when I read that in this book, I remember just this flood of God's grace just overwhelming me. And I started to realize, wait, I'm not the crud underneath the toenail of the body of Christ. I'm a part of that body. I don't know if I'm the eye or the foot. Some would say I'm the mouth 'cause I talk so much. But I, I don't know where I exactly fit in. But here I was in my early twenties, and I started saying, my identity is not where I grew up...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…or what my last name is, or what my mom's struggles were. Those were all things to shape me and to mold me...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
…to be used of God in my lifetime. But first and foremost, I am God's child.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
My identity is in Christ and Christ alone.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And when that came, it changed everything for me, and it began a healing process in me. When I really understood my identity in Christ, it gave me an identity that began to build and build and build to where I think God was able to use me the way he'd intended to use me for his glory, and for the good of others, because of what I'd gone through.
And, you know, I pastored a church back east for 11 years as senior pastor preaching Sunday morning, Sunday night, sometimes Wednesday nights. And I never told anyone my story of my childhood. I just say, my mom had some troubles and God worked it through. It wasn't till I met Joni and I told her how much she meant to my mom. She said, "Your story has to be told." And she allowed me to tell it in a setting at Joni and Friends and I just broke down sharing the reality of the story. Joni said, and others in the room said, "You should write this down. People need to hear your story."
Then I shared it with our congregation. They said, "Please tell us more." And I shared bits and sermons and things of the story, and then the folks in the church of Pastor back East said, "Why didn't you share some of this with us? We can relate to that."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
I didn't know that my story mattered, but I think healing came as I realized my story matters because of who I am first and foremost in Christ, and how he is healing my heart and my life, and how he's equipping and using me to bring glory to him and to bring good into the lives of others.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Shawn Thornton:
I realized my story matters. So, our stories do matter.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
Even in the brokenness and pain.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Whether it's a child, a teenager, an adult, our stories do matter because God is at work in us. Again, going back to 2 Corinthians, his strength is made perfect...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
…in our weakness. So, for me that healing is still a process, but there are some great milestones where God has been healing me.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
So that he can use me as a brighter and brighter light. The more I'm healed, the more I rely upon him for who he is and the good news of Jesus Christ.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. I can't believe he weren't sharing that 'cause I listened straight through. And the fact that what we feel like is just crazy the Lord is like, "No, I'm in this.
Shawn Thornton:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
I'm writing this."
Shawn Thornton:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
And man.
Shawn Thornton:
He's good.
Stephanie Daniels:
He's so good. And I just love that you're here. I love that we get to read your story and just see how God can, like you mentioned earlier, bring beauty from the ashes...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
…of our lives, so.
Shawn Thornton:
And I'm excited that he can now take my story and my years of pastoring and this season of my life, at almost 60 years old, to be able to help equip the global church...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…to reach families like mine.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And others that maybe even have more severe things that are going on with the child, with a loved one. To be able to equip the church to love them as Jesus loves them is a great honor to be a part of this.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes. Oh, so fabulous. Well, for someone listening today who's in the middle of exhaustion or maybe they're a caregiver or just feeling broken by their own condition, what would you say directly to them?
Shawn Thornton:
I would say that the Scriptures talk about how we are earthen vessels.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
In 2 Corinthians, it talks about we're earth and vessels, we're clay pots, you know?
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
We're, we're frail beings.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
And we live among broken people, live in a broken world, so you're gonna have times of pain, you're gonna have times of disability and challenge, but God wants to meet you in those moments.We read in 2 Corinthians 4 about how that this clay pot has this great treasure of the power of God being inside us.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yep. Yep.
Shawn Thornton:
And that we are designed then to shine for his glory in our brokenness. And God wants to meet you in that pain...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
…in that disability. And he wants to be there for you so that you find joy, you find satisfaction life, and then that shines to those around you who may be going through different kinds of struggles...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…but they're going through struggles too.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
And they see the hope of Christ in and through you.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That makes me think of something Joni shared with the staff one time about Kintsugi, that pottery method...
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
…where the, Master Potter will take the plaster and mix it with platinum and gold and fill in the cracks of these broken vessels.
Shawn Thornton:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
And that just ups the value and makes them more precious. And that just impacted me, that message.
Shawn Thornton:
It's a beautiful, beautiful image, isn't it?
Stephanie Daniels:
It's so wonderful. And when I think about that, the Lord is the potter and we're the clay. It's just so beautiful what the Lord can do with our brokenness. I love that you shared that.
I'm curious, are there any Scripture passages that you can share to encourage someone going through a hard season or some that have carried you?
Shawn Thornton:
I think, 2 Corinthians chapter one, verses three and four, talk about how God comforts us...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…so that we can take his comfort and comfort others with the exact same encouragement and strength that he brought to us. So, God sometimes uses us as the channel of his comfort to others. If I just stop with me and what I'm going through, it can become very desperate.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
But if I understand what he's saying there in 2 Corinthians, he's telling us that we become this precious channel through which he wants to show his love and hope to others who are going through similar trials that we're going through and similar difficulties.
So, I would just urge anyone who's listening, who's going through a difficulty dealing with disability in your family, or in your life...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Thornton:
…to recognize that God still wants to use you as a channel of his love and hope to others as you receive that hope and love, then he wants to use you. And I think that's when we really find satisfaction and joy.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
When God uses us in our brokenness to help other people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes, Lord make us channels. I love that. So, we've talked about the global church, we've talked about the church, and I just wanna know, what is your hope in seeing the church include people living with disabilities?
Shawn Thornton:
Well, I do believe that we are all about, at Joni and Friends, spreading the Gospel and making sure that as we are spreading the Gospel, we're glorifying God by evangelizing, discipling, serving people and families affected by disability. In terms of that impact then, we envision that everyone who is dealing with a disability would find a place in the body of Christ. And they'd discover hope and dignity in their identity as someone made in God's image for whom Christ died, that they would find that hope.
For me that means, as we in the United States and around the world, working with partners and working with many people across the country, churches and volunteers in the various ministries of Joni and Friends, as we come alongside churches and equip them to serve folks affected by disability and include them in the life of the church, and the full life of the church, I really have this dream that if 150 years from now, there is no Joni of Friends.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mmm.
Shawn Thornton:
It doesn't exist, but the global church is actually including...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…and inviting people into the full life of the body of Christ as they come to Jesus and they become a part of the body. Then Joni and Friends would've been successful in the kingdom of God...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…in reshaping the global church. Wouldn't that be a great thing?
Stephanie Daniels:
It would be.
Shawn Thornton:
It'd be a great thing...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
If we worked ourselves out of a job.
Stephanie Daniels:
Worked ourselves out of a job.
Shawn Thornton:
So that the church itself would say, we embrace this...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…because this is near and dear to the heart of Jesus. To help those affected by disability know, love, and serve him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
Just as much as we know, love and serve him.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah. That is so good. It makes me think of our Luke 14 mandate.
Shawn Thornton:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
You know, go out quickly and bring people in. We gotta bring people in.
Shawn Thornton:
Bring in the lame, the poor...
Stephanie Daniels:
That's right.
Shawn Thornton:
…the blind. And he says, so that my house...
Stephanie Daniels:
May be full.
Shawn Thornton:
…may be full.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Shawn Thornton:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh man. So, we've got work to do.
Shawn Thornton:
We've got work to do. And wouldn't it be great if it was 10 years from now, people said, “Now what are you guys doing over there at Joni and Friends? We're all doing that in our churches.”
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
That'd be a great thing.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
I think it's gonna take a little more time than that.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's right.
Shawn Thornton:
I think we've got an opportunity all around the globe...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Shawn Thornton:
…to really make sure that churches are understanding God's heart for those living with disability.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Yeah. I am so thankful for you, for your story, that you got the courage to share it. And I know it's gonna be a blessing to whoever reads. It's a blessing to the body of Christ.
Shawn Thornton:
Thank you.
Stephanie Daniels:
And it's a very hopeful one.
Shawn Thornton:
Thanks.
Stephanie Daniels:
So, Shawn, thank you so much for being here with us.
Shawn Thornton:
Thank you, Stephanie. Thank you for the great job you do on this podcast and what you do, and...
Stephanie Daniels:
Thank you.
Shawn Thornton:
Our social media and helping make sure that people are communicating clearly and having great conversations together about the hope that's found in Jesus. So, thank you for your part on our team.
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely.
Shawn Thornton:
We're blessed to have you as a part of the Joni and Friends team.
Stephanie Daniels:
Well, we're blessed to have you, and I'm blessed to be here. This is everything. So...
Shawn Thornton:
Thank you.
Stephanie Daniels:
Thank you.
We hope this conversation touched your heart today. If it did, consider sharing it with someone who might be encouraged as well. And don’t forget to follow us on your favorite podcasting app so you never miss an episode. See you next week!
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