What if caregiving isn't an interruption to ministry, but ministry itself? In this thoughtful and deeply personal conversation, Dr. Mike Beates shares how disability reshaped his understanding of the Gospel, the image of God, and what it means to faithfully follow Christ. Together, Stephanie and Mike explore why weakness is central to the Christian life, how caregiving reveals the heart of God, and why every person possesses immeasurable dignity, not because of what they can do, but because they bear God's image.
What if caregiving isn't an interruption to ministry, but ministry itself?
For more than three decades, Dr. Michael Beates has served as a theologian, professor, author, and longtime leader with Joni and Friends. But beyond the classroom and the conference stage, his greatest ministry has been at home, alongside his wife,caring for their daughter with profound disabilities, his aging mother-in-law, and their adopted son who has ongoing support needs.
In this thoughtful and deeply personal conversation, Dr. Mike Beates shares how disability reshaped his understanding of the Gospel, the image of God, and what it means to faithfully follow Christ. Together, Stephanie and Mike explore why weakness is central to the Christian life, how caregiving reveals the heart of God, and why every person possesses immeasurable dignity, not because of what they can do, but because they bear God's image.
Whether you're a caregiver, a ministry leader, or someone walking through a season of dependence, this episode offers biblical encouragement to see caregiving as holy work and weakness as a place where God's grace shines brightest.
MENTIONED RESOURCES:
KEY QUESTIONS:
KEY SCRIPTURES:
Stephanie Daniels:
When I heard about Dr. Michael Beates, I wondered how does one person carry so much? He's an author, theologian, and professor, and a longtime servant with Joni and Friends where he served on our international board of directors. He's husband to Mary and a father of seven children, one with profound disabilities and two others who face ongoing challenges.
Just hearing that list can feel overwhelming and yet, for more than 30 years, Mike has faithfully lived at the intersection of ministry, family life, and caregiving. In this season, caregiving is not just something he talks about, it's something he lives every single day. Yes, he has a long list of accomplishments and credentials, but beyond that, what makes Mike's voice so important is this: He speaks not just as a scholar, but as a father, a caregiver, and a follower of Christ walking through hardship with hope. Welcome to the podcast, Mike.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Thank you, Stephanie. That's, uh, quite a humbling introduction.
Stephanie Daniels:
Before we go any further, seven kids.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Yeah, that's quite a story
Stephanie Daniels:
I'd love to hear it. Can you share it with us?
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Well, my wife and I both come from families with four kids, and we wanted at least that many, and we had four kids by birth. But my wife, she had room in her heart for more, so we adopted one. We're a white family and he's Black. And from all the reading we did from that, we learned that you need to get other differences.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And so we looked for one more, and that was a little girl who had a brother.So we wanted five and decided we needed six, and God gave us seven instead. And, uh, we wouldn't have done it any other way. can't see life without all of them.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so beautiful. I always love to hear, about adoption and what leads families that direction, and it's just so beautiful, and really a picture of how the Lord has adopted us in as His children.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
it's a beautiful spiritual metaphor...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Of which, uh, God is the perfect adoptive father, and we're not perfect adoptive parents by any means. But, people tell us our life is a witness, so we give God that glory.
Stephanie Daniels:
Speaking of being a witness, you have written a beautiful book, titled Disability and the Gospel, and Joni Eareckson Tada even wrote the forward.Can you tell us about the book and why you wrote it?
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Sure. I'll tell you a secret, actually. I had pitched it to a publisher as a co-authorship with Joni, and I pulled a bunch of her quotes and I thought, "Let's put her stuff in a sidebar here and there or, you know, something like that." And Joni got back to me and said, "You know, that's a great idea, but if I get involved there'll have to be agents and contracts. It'll be really complicated. How about if you just keep every quote to under 250 words and we won't have to ask for any permissions, and I'll write the forward."
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And I said, "Well, that sounds great." So if you flip through my book you'll see lots of block quotes, and I'm introducing people to Joni's literature, her many, many books and wonderful writing. And it really augmented the work that I did. And I tell people her little four-page, forward is worth the price of the whole book. , It's beautiful. It was wonderful.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
So been a colleague in a sense with her for many, many years. I met her way back in the early '90s when I was working at Ligonier Ministries with R.C. Sproul and she spoke at a conference.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And R.C. said, "Well, you've got a daughter in a wheelchair. How about if you h- handle the lady in the wheelchair?" And I was like, "Really? I get to meet and hang out with Joni Tada? Oh, my goodness. What a blessing."
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And so that's how we got together back in the early '90s, and did a couple family retreats here in Florida together where she would lead the singing and I would play the guitar, and, And, uh, we've been good friends since then, and I came on the board a few years later. transitioned off the board a few years ago just 'cause of our family situation. It's hard to travel.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
But I've stayed really involved here in Florida with the Florida area. And it's been a joy.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's wonderful. Well, I know they love you in Florida at that, area ministry, I've heard so many beautiful, wonderful things about you, from our leadership. So I'm so glad that you're joining us today on the podcast. Can you share how, the gospel reshapes the way that we think about weakness and dependence and vulnerability?
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Sure. I'm drawing a blank on the subtitle of my book. It's something like, how weakness and brokenness displays God's grace, And that was really the gospel focus of the book.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
The other secret is I really wrote it for pastors and leaders, because if pastors and leaders get it, then that mom, the single mom with a disabled kid won't have to be doing all the fighting in church to get the attention or get the help she needs. The pastors, it'll come from the top down.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
But the message of the book is that we are really all disabled people. We are all broken people. And as Americans, we love to deny that. We, we look good, we dress up, we cover up. we deflect, we shield all the weaknesses and all the brokenness. I teach students, that's my day job here, and, one of the courses is a New Testament survey, and I tell students, "To understand the good news, you have to understand the bad news first." Otherwise, the good news is just news. But when you really get the bad news, the good news looks really good.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And the bad news is we are weak and broken people. We are desperately sinful people. We're, we're lost people who cannot save ourselves, and that makes the gospel a wonderful thing, because God does for us what we can't do for ourselves.
Stephanie Daniels:
Amen.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
I see the gospel really, really highlighted in the Book of Deuteronomy, believe it or not, because in chapter 10 in Deuteronomy, there's a little piece there where there's five big laws, to walk, to fear, to live, to do all these things, and to cleanse our hearts, and that's a commandment from God in the law, and we can't do it. We just can't do it. But if you jump ahead to chapter 30, God says, "I will cleanse your hearts so that you can live, so that you can love me." And the message there is that, we certainly can't live in the truest sense abundantly, nor can we truly love God until He loves us first. For me, that's the gospel, and it, comes out of brokenness.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
Which is a counter-cultural message in our day.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right. That's so powerful. I'm so glad you, walked us through that. You talk about dignity and the image of God. Why is that such a crucial foundation for this conversation?
Dr. Micheal Beates:
The image of God is in e- every human being. We are made in His image
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And the big theological question is what does that mean? And there's been lots of different answers. Some people limit it to our ability to communicate, our ability to exercise dominion, our ability to create, which that's what drove me to this research years and years ago, 'cause my daughter is profoundly disabled, and she doesn't speak. She does communicate in the most rudimentary way with emotions. She doesn't exercise dominion. She requires total care And there are some people who would say, "Well, does she really have the image of God?" that's a very dangerous place to move, isn't it?
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
The secular world talks about personhood, and I think that's the parallel discussion with the Christian theological idea of image of God.
What constitutes a person? And in our secular world, people might say, if you don't communicate, if you don't have independence, if you don't have a sense of being, then you're not a person Well, if you're not a person, you're disposable. You're a liability.
And that's a very dangerous thing, and we've seen what, happens with that in our culture. People get discarded. But the scriptures are clear that every human is made in God's image, and as much as that might be broken by sin or by the fall, we still retain His image in some sense. I think that includes our physical being.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
And some people might say, "Well, but God doesn't have a body." Say, "Well, but Jesus is God, and Jesus has a body, and He rose to heaven in His body, and He's at the right hand of the Father in His body. And we, we look a lot like Him in our bodies." So it's our, our whole being, body and soul that images God in some sense.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
So that means even the most broken still image God. And what that means then is every person is worthy of dignity and value. Every person has intrinsic worth just in their being, not in what they do.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Dr. Micheal Beates:
In our culture, what you do defines you. And it's a really weird thing, isn't it? We pay, you know athletes and movie stars tons of money for what they do. We pay brain surgeons a lot for what they do. I'm glad they do what they do. It's, you know, it's really important. but we're defined by what we do in our culture. And if you don't do anything, people say, "Well, you're not, you're not worth anything."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But being precedes doing. Who we are precedes what we do. Not that what we do is not important. It is important as a Christian to walk and to please God. But just in our being as God's children made in His image, we have value, and we can't lose that. that's so fundamental to everything we talk about.
Stephanie Daniels:
I like how you break that down. Jesus had a body, but not just in the physical, the spiritual, too. that is deep, and I'm gonna have to- ruminate on that a little bit more.
Well you and your wife Mary were entering a season of being empty nesters, and 2021 came along and brought three familiar dependents back to your home, can you tell us about this season in your life and the feelings that you and your wife experienced?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yep. We were actually empty nesters for a few months. That was kind of fun. COVID changed all that. Mary's mother is 93 now, and she was in a really nice, care facility, but, uh, they locked down and she was withering. she was lonely. it just wasn't good.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And she came home one weekend. I said, "What are they gonna do, put you in quarantine? You're already in quarantine. They won't let you see us." that night at dinner she said, "I can't go back." And so Mary and I looked at each other and said, "Well, okay. Here we go." And so she moved in, and about six months after that our daughter, who had been 15 years in a, in a wonderful, what they call here in Florida intermediate care facility...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Less than a mile from our home, they also locked down. They were losing staff and workers, and the ones they had weren't as well trained and, things just weren't going well.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And we told them we'd lost trust, and we need to move her home. So in July of '21 she moved home, and that required getting a van with a wheelchair lift and hospital bed and all the equipment and all the help and changing all the prescriptions back over to us and it was a lot of work.
Stephanie Daniels:
Absolutely.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And she came to us not in good health, And it took a few months to get back to balance again. And then we had to find the caregivers, 'cause w- we brought her home without that, and we knew we needed it and we knew she qualified for it, but it was a lot of work over about three or four months to, to get that in place.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And then shortly after that, our youngest adopted son who lives with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, he had to move back home, and so now we have, Grandma at 93, Jessica at 43, and Joe at 32 all living with us.
Stephanie Daniels:
I'm so glad you were open to saying, yeah, come back here and stay.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Well, we saw it as a calling. When God calls you, you don't get to choose where you're going or what you're doing. God calls you, and sometimes that's a little bit of a surprise. And this was a need that was presented to us with our loved ones, and, we had to do it.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The way I say it is we moved from serving out there, we'd been giving our lives away for years and years in ministry...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
To now we're serving in here.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
So a lot of our outward work has stopped. But it's now all inward work here at home.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, that's so interesting. Is everybody called to caregive? You may have people in your family who need care, they're not able to care for themself, but are you the one to do it? Can you speak to those who might feel like I'm kinda stuck in this space where I'm caregiving, but this is not my calling?
Dr. Michael Beates:
That's really thought-provoking. we have often said that while adoption is a picture of what God does for us, we've also said not everybody's called to adopt, 'cause it's not easy. I think the same might be true in this regard that, depending on your life and your gifts, it may or may not be the thing you're called to do.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I don't know if everybody could be called, and, that would be a really, really hard place to be if you were seeing this wasn't your gift. Course it's making me think now, I don't even know if it's our gift. But it is our responsibility.
Stephanie Daniels:
And there's grace.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And there's grace. Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Well, how has caregiving shaped your marriage?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Well, we don't have a lot of time for each other because our day is spent caring for the people here and doing the tasks that , come around every day, the mundane.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And sometimes you get to the end of the day, and you just, you're just tired.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
It does wear you out. my mother-in-law's financial guy told us when she came to move with us that we would need to get away quarterly or at least semi-annually to care for the caregiver, and that is a big thing.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Caregivers have to care for themselves as well. Think about that thing on the airplane, right? Put on your own mask first, and then help the other person. You gotta help yourself because if you fall down and can't get back up to help the person you're trying to help, you're no help.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah
Dr. Michael Beates:
That is a mandatory thing, to think about yourself. Which there's a tension there, isn't it? Because in, in Christ we're called to give ourselves away. But there has to be some sense of self-care. I think our culture errs in the other side. It's all about my self-care.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Dr. Michael Beates:
It's all about me. I'm, I'm number one. My needs are first. We would say no, your needs are never first, but your needs are still present, and they have to be recognized. and Mary and I have not been able to get away quarterly.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I would say semi-annually we'll get away for a night or two, but that's about it.
Stephanie Daniels:
Those getaways can be so, revitalizing and just refreshing I do wish that all caregivers were financially able and, maybe able due to people that can step in and just say, "Hey, go take care of yourself and we got this back here."
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yeah, financially it can be very hard. In that regard, I think we're not the norm because we have been blessed. Mary's mom has funds And in addition to that, our two disabled adult children now also have SSI. so there's some money coming in for their expenses and needs each month. But I know that's not the case for many, many people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But I would also say it was a lot of work to get that into place as well.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah, I was gonna say, that stuff, if you don't know about it, is so difficult to try and navigate on your own. And even sometimes I think you can get that first no and think, "Okay, well, it's just out of the picture for me." I don't know if there's, advocates who can help you work around, ' It was like that for me with my dad, who's a veteran, and as soon as I was checking into, you know, what benefits he was able to get, they were like, "No, he doesn't qualify." So I just said, "Okay," and kept moving. But, I think it's hard to know what all is available.
Dr. Michael Beates:
It is very hard. It's a complex system. I don't know how many people do it. we stumbled into some of it. To be honest, with our son, we were looking for him to get a Medicaid card for his medical coverage. And we went to apply for that, and they said, "Well, he can't just get the Medicaid card. He has to get the SSI as well." We're like, "Well, we weren't looking for the money." They said, "Well, it, comes hand-in-hand. Both things have to happen together." So we were looking for one thing and ended up with another thing as well. You have to go out and find it. it's a complex system.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. I don't even know where to point our listeners to go look for that, but I will hope ... they will do the research.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I know that every state is different as well.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right. In Florida, we know that, if you're disabled, you can get what's called a independent support coordinator.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The state of Florida has subcontracted out the social work for people with disabilities And they have an agency for that called the Agency for Persons with Disabilities, APD, and you can hire a support coordinator, and his job is to find you the services that, that you qualify for. And so we've got a guy that does that for our, our daughter.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And he sets up delivery of materials, and he's the one that's helped us to find caregivers and an agency to manage the caregivers.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And e- even in a couple of times when the caregiver hasn't worked out and we've had to make a change. That was his job, so he was able to do that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wow.
Dr. Michael Beates:
So I don't know what other states do, but, the independent support coordinator system in Florida was a lifesaver for us
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so great. You're right. It's out there if you are looking for it. Back to the marriage question. I wanna know, how did you and your wife, support each other in this season?
Dr. Michael Beates:
I kind of mentioned that earlier, in the sense that we try to give each other some time away.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
So Mary is a quilter, and twice a year there's a group here in central Florida that has a quilting retreat...
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, fun.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And you bring all your stuff. She has a whole carload of machines and gear and equipment. And they go up there for four days, and they set up in a big room with 30 or 40 ladies and tables, and they just chat and quilt. And it's a rejuvenating time for her that she does that in January and August. So that's her time away. And then she gives me time away to go visit a Joni and Friends family retreat, or an old high school buddy or something like that for a few days. So we do that for each other.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Because we know that we need that time away. But then we also try to get away together as we need to. I've changed my schedule, to accommodate our, household. I know that it's hard.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The demands don't go away, so I've gone to part-time in my work. I'm teaching much less and doing more at home.
Stephanie Daniels:
You know, there's seasons in marriage where you, you have to accommodate each other, there's ebbs and flows. You got things to work through, and responsibility looks different from season to season. So I love how you guys have...
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Been able to kind of navigate that and, see each other's need and, and make room for that...
Dr. Michael Beates:
Right.
Stephanie Daniels:
For each other.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yeah, we had many years of being able to be away.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But now this is the time where we're, we get to be at home. And we know it's not a, an eternal season.
Stephanie Daniels:
Right.
Dr. Michael Beates:
My mother-in-law's 93. Jessica at 43 has way outlived all the predictions for her. She has a chromosomal anomaly, and they said people like her will live into their 20s, maybe 30s, and she's approaching mid-40s.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But her state is fragile. She does seem to be declining. Although she still brings us joy, she's made in God's image and she continues to have a ministry.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That's beautiful.
Dr. Michael Beates:
We've often said that her life is kind of like Paul in Philippians 1. Where Paul says, I would love to go be with Christ, but if I remain in the body, it's for your benefit." So we've said she's still here because she still has a ministry.
Stephanie Daniels:
Amen.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And she's still impacting people. And it doesn't make any sense to me, but that's how God works. She speaks without words and, her life bears witness.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah it's a beautiful testimony. He uses all of us, I feel like when I've gone, to family retreat, and I'm surrounded with my friends they just show me so much about who God is. In Christianity, we often talk about serving others, but caregiving can feel more like a long obedience than a single act of service. And we had a guest on, I believe it was last season, Jess Ronne,
She said that caregiving is holy work. I'd never heard it put like that before. but it is sanctifying. And so how do you think about caregiving through a Biblical lens?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Let me go Old Testament here with you. We see a pattern when God would speak to people, the right response is a little Hebrew word pronounced hineni.
And hineni literally means here I am, but it's kinda like what the butler would say or what the servant would say when they ring the bell. They might say, "You rang, Lord?" At your service, Lord." But in Hebrew, it's hineni, here I am, and here I am carries the, the weight of I am here to serve you. I am at your service. Tell me what to do. Caregiving is a long haul, but God is just, calling you, and our response needs to be, "Here I am, and I'm willing to do it." It was not in my plan. You know, it's not in the butler's plan to go fix this or to do that. We're God's servants. Yes, we're His children.
It's a different relationship, but sometimes we're just called to do. And, and we should respond, "Here I am, ready to serve." That's what makes it holy work. I love that idea of holy work. I'm gonna talk to my wife when she gets back from her little away right now about the holy work that we're doing.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes
Dr. Michael Beates:
So that would be my quick little biblical lens is, is think about the here I am, ready to serve.
Stephanie Daniels:
I love that too. what a, a heart posture. When you're faced with this. And my prayer would just be that the Lord would help us have that posture when we're faced with this.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Well, Mike, how has being a father shaped the way that you read scripture and understand the heart of God?
Dr. Michael Beates:
I may have alluded to this earlier, my daughter's situation, she was born when we were in our mid-20s, and it was a shock when we learned that she was disabled and would be profoundly disabled for her whole life. Kind of threw us into a theological tailspin.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
God, what are you doing here? And that's what drove me actually to graduate school, to seminary, and that's, the major work I did in seminary was, an independent study on Imago Dei, image of God, trying to answer these questions that we had, and then years later, that turned into the book. It was really me trying to get answers for myself. and what we've seen through scripture is that God hardly ever uses people you'd think He's gonna use. He doesn't use the strong to achieve His plans. He uses the weak.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
He uses the nameless and the nobodies, and He turns the world upside down. He doesn't use power structures. He takes those apart. He uses people who are desperately, desperately needy people. Having Jessica in our life retooled the way I see the scriptures, and the way we do ministry. It comes from weakness and submission and dependence, not from strength and independence.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Caregiving can be so challenging. Sometimes you just want to remove yourself from the situations, and I'm wondering, do you think that caregiving reveals something about the heart of God that we might otherwise miss?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Oh my, sure does. I remember years ago, John Piper, Joni's been friends with him for years he had a saying that stuck with me where he said, "We need to move away from comfort toward the need." This is one of the gospel calls to us, is to move away from comfort toward need. and somebody else has said that, we learn little or nothing in life from comfort and pleasure All the lessons we learn of any meaningfulness come from desperate hardships, desperation, loss, brokenness. , I wish it wasn't that way-
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But th- those are where the lessons come, and frankly, that's where our dependence upon God comes. We saw that even in the land of Israel in, Kings, right?
The fertile land in the north, they had everything they needed. They had crops, they had food, they had the beaches, they had everything they needed, and they turned away from the Lord...
And fell into all kinds of grievous sin. But the people down in Judea and the hardship in the highlands, in the, in the rocky central ridge, right on the edge of the wilderness, that's where God speaks to people, out in that wilderness when you need Him. And when you're living in comfort, you get this lie spoken to you that you're fine. You're just fine. You don't need anybody. You don't need anything. when you've got nothing, you know that Jesus is all you need. And so we can't remove ourselves from the situations we're in. Some people do a pretty good job trying to do that
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But I think caregiving is moving away from our comfort toward the need that's in front of us.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so good. Well, as you've been walking through this long season of caregiving, what spiritual disciplines have you found that have sustained you?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Boy, I'll be honest, I'm not really good with spiritual disciplines. I teach the Bible... every day.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Well, not every day, but most days. So that's God disciplining me to stay in the word that way. I would have to say what I enjoy, and I think what, what helps gird me up spiritually, is to read, strong Christian writing. Joni's little books, her radio shows are just gems of wisdom and encouragement. Other books by classic authors, and some of the best stuff that's still coming out.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I'll give a plug for a book I'm reading Joni wrote the forward. Kevin Burrell's book, Considering Sparrows It's a book on how birds are a metaphor for so much spiritual truth, and he's walking his way through the Book of Philippians, each chapter looking at a different kind of bird...
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And how they come together. and it's just a wonderful, wonderful piece of work. Chapter I just read was on, on murmurations and the starlings that do these huge, you know, 20,000 birds in a cloud moving at a great speed, never colliding, always working, at the same speed, drifting, moving, beautiful shapes in the sky, and he likened that to, Paul's focus on unity in Philippians 1. That the church be unified. So I, I read things like that to keep me going and keep me on track.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. That is kind of encouraging to hear. A lot of the time we think that these spiritual disciplines have to be prayer. It has to be reading the Word. It has to be, this regimented system of things and, Christian material can also feed you. And I, love that you mentioned Joni's radio program because we, hear from people all the time talking about, Joni's one-minute and four-minute radio programs, what a blessing they've been.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Stephanie. I'll tell you, I don't have time on my drive to work to listen to a whole podcast...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But I've got time to listen to one or two of Joni's radio shows. And that's what I listen to on the way to work. And those five-minute nuggets are just so encouraging.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so great. listeners, you can find Joni's one-minute and four minute radio programs on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts and it's on our website, and we'll link that in the show notes for you.
Dr. Michael Beates:
You know, I didn't know that either, because I, I get Spotify. I can turn that on and find her that way, too. Great.
Stephanie Daniels:
100%. Yeah. you've shared that along with the care you and your wife give, you have in-home caregivers.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yes.
Stephanie Daniels:
I resonate with this because my family had several caregivers for my mom and dad through, disability and health challenges that they walked through. So as much of a blessing as it is to have in-home help, it's hard to get, caregivers. I know we went through so many. why is that so hard?
Dr. Michael Beates:
I think it's because, we're sinful, fallible people, right? and somebody's coming into your home. It's an intimate thing. Our daughter has care. She actually qualifies for 24-hour care, but we found that having somebody at night was almost distracting to her. She couldn't sleep all the way through with somebody in the room, so we went to just 12 hours during the day from 8:30 to 8:30.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But they're entering your home. They're around the house during the day. , So it's taxing in that sense that you're not alone.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
There's somebody new here. But they're not family, even though they can become beloved. we've had caregivers that love our daughter well. they are beloved by us, but some not so much.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
We had one lady who was, very good at the care, but she was rather cold. Didn't speak to our daughter much. Cared for her fine. But didn't get too personal with her, and was just a little hard to be around.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And so we had to, we had to separate ways after, oh, about probably... It, it was months, because we didn't have the flexibility, and we needed her. But we have a caregiver now who sings with Jessica, reads scripture with her, takes her on walks, loves her very well.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's so beautiful.
Dr. Michael Beates:
For that, we're very grateful.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
So you really need someone who can be with you in your home and you can be comfortable with them in your home. And they kind of fit.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And that's a tough find.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. we had a great caregiver, and, my dad kind of ran her off and we were so sad about that. 'Cause he just talked too much, and I think she was like, "I can't do this." And so, yeah, caregivers can be just such a delicate space.
I think it's so beautiful that this caregiver takes the time to just minister to your daughter through, worship and reading the word to her. have you felt a burden to do that for her as well, in raising your kids and the kids that have lived with disability? Have you felt a burden to disciple them?
Dr. Michael Beates:
I probably wouldn't have called it discipleship so much as raising them up in the Lord.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
In that regard, yeah. I will admit that we weren't reading a scripture with Jessica when she moved back home with us. It was just busy. Our caregiver has the time to do that since that's her single focus, and we love that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Of course, the agency for persons with disabilities in Florida is not a Christian agency. We've been very blessed that the caregivers that we have had thus far, maybe with one exception, have been devoted Christians. people know pretty quickly when they enter our home that, that we're Christians. I teach at a Christian school. We go to church. you look around the house, there's artwork, there's books, there's music.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The music my daughter listens to is, Christian music. Our daughter does resonate with music. There's some music she really likes and some she doesn't like, and she lets you know by her emotional response. But it's Christian music with Christian lyrics, and so if people are gonna work here, they have to be down with that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. For someone in the midst of this journey of looking for a caregiver, what tips do you have?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Networking, networking, networking. We talk to people who might know people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm
Dr. Michael Beates:
Really, that's, that's it. And, and praying. We, we have people that pray for us regularly: that the caregivers will be good, that if we need a new caregiver, one will come.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But it's really about talking to people who know other people. that's the only way that we've found that we can find them. The agency that we employ who, who works for us in the sense of they're the oversight for the staffing. Our caregivers when they come, they sign in on an iPad of some kind to, track their hours, and that's where they're paid from this agency.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Again, not a Christian agency, but a Christian man runs it. And so that's good, and he knows what we're looking for. I, I wish there was a, a better answer, but that, that's the, that is the primary challenge in caregiving is finding the, people to come alongside you and help.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
In the church we're supposed to come alongside one another, right?
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
In 2 Corinthians 1 it talks about coming alongside, comforting others with the comfort we received, and that, that idea of comfort is really coming alongside, just walking with. Not necessarily speaking to, but just walking with and being present with the others. And the church, this is the goal, isn't it?
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Dr. Michael Beates:
This is what Joni and Friends is trying to do, to equip churches to come alongside families.
Stephanie Daniels:
100%
Dr. Michael Beates:
So that's been the place we look i- is churches to see if there are people who are interested in serving as caregivers.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. It's a great place to look.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
What are some of the hidden logistical burdens families may not anticipate until they're in the middle of caregiving?
Dr. Michael Beates:
For us it was the logistics of materials. getting that stuff delivered regularly, not running out of stuff.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, yeah
Dr. Michael Beates:
Is important. And my wife and I are about to set up a whiteboard, I think, on the wall near the closet where we store everything. That's just gonna be an inventory...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Because we've been caught short a couple of times where all of a sudden we're on the last box of this or we've got no more of these, and they're necessary.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Dr. Michael Beates:
So I would say one of, one of the hidden burdens is keeping up with all of that stuff.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And that includes prescriptions.
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Logistically you have to stay ahead of the curve of the need, and you have to be able to forecast the need. and that's not something that you and I do in our normal lives of being relatively normal people.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
When I say normal I always use scare quotes because normal is a mathematical term, right?
In- in our humanity it's a spectrum.
For people with needs, whether it's an aging parent and the needs they have...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Or a disabled daughter like ours with the many logistical needs that she has. And you gotta stay ahead of the curve, and you gotta think outside yourself to, "Okay, what do we need?"
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. I'm glad you said that. It made me remember a time with my mom that she had been taking some blood sugar medication and- Somehow it slipped our minds and we just kinda stopped managing it, and she had an episode one weekend and we almost lost her...
Dr. Michael Beates:
Mm, yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
That is such a valid point, is to just, stay on top of those things...
Dr. Michael Beates:
Well, I'll give you a funny story about my mother-in-law. I don't think she'd mind this. When she came here, she asked for ice cream one night, and we said, "You can have ice cream whenever you want here."
Stephanie Daniels:
Oh, Lord.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Well, she gets three scoops of mint chocolate chip every night. And there have been times we've run out. " Oh my goodness, we didn't realize we were almost out." When she's almost out of something else, she'll leave the empty container on the counter just to remind us.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But she can't do that with the ice cream, you gotta stay ahead of the curve with these little things.
Stephanie Daniels:
Stay stocked. Well, for parents navigating systems, medical, educational, or state programs, how do you fight for what you need while maintaining relationships?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Mm- I will have to say that my wife is the fighter. She knows what we need.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I would use that scriptural metaphor, you've gotta be the persistent widow. You keep knocking on the door, you keep calling on the phone until you get what you need.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And, and Mary is really good at that. Although there are some days when I come home and she'll say, "I have been on the phone for four hours. It's been 16 different call-" You know, because that's what it takes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And when you're navigating that system, you've just gotta be persistent. You've got to stick with it. , And you gotta be very clear. You have to know what you need. So that when you get to the right person, they can actually help you. We can be winsome, but we have to be persistent about it. I think caregivers are called to be the, the watchdogs.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And that means sometimes you gotta bark.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Oh, man. It is such a journey, and there's so much opportunity for the Lord to just refine you through the process...
Dr. Michael Beates:
Amen.
Stephanie Daniels:
Of caregiving. And sometimes I know you think, "Lord, how much more can I take?"
Dr. Michael Beates:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
I've heard so many stories of people being on calls like that, where I was transferred to such and such and such and such so many different times. And then finally it's, it's cool how sometimes the Lord can send you to just the right person.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Just the right person.
Stephanie Daniels:
And they end up ministering to you...
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
In that place of desperation and need. he's in it, but...
Dr. Michael Beates:
It can be hard.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. It doesn't make it easy. Well, how have you guys navigated the changing hands of care when maybe aides or teachers or support staff transition out of your space?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Transitions are hard, and I think what you wanna plan for there is a bridge. So if someone's transitioning out, you don't want them to leave until they have trained the next person.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's good
Dr. Michael Beates:
Cause that's just not fair to have to start all over again. And that's the professional's job. Have some overlap of days with the outgoing people to make sure that things are right.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
You see that at You've got the trainee at the counter with the expert, yeah. And they do that for I don't know how many hours, but you need that with the caregiving as well.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's great.
Dr. Michael Beates:
You've got to make sure that, there's a bridge across the gap-
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And you gotta pray...
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Dr. Michael Beates:
For God to bless the process.
Stephanie Daniels:
Prayer is a consistent theme, throughout today's podcast, and I love that. and I'm wondering, what encouragement would you offer to a family at the beginning of a lifelong caregiving journey?
Dr. Michael Beates
I'm not sure if this is encouragement or warning. The journey, you're, you're on the journey. If you're called to be on that journey, you're on the journey, and you don't get to get out of the car.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The car is gonna keep going, and it's a one-way trip, and you don't get to stop and pull off. I think maybe you do with a, w- with a break or a respite Yes, you get some breaks. But that car's still moving. That journey's still going.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah ...
Dr. Michael Beates:
I, I've spoken to a lot of churches and pastors conferences, and I, I warn pastors about this. If your church gets involved with a family with disabilities, you're in it for the long haul.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
One of the errors we make in the church is, yeah, we'll take broken sinners, and then they get better. With this population, they don't get better. sometimes God may bless, and they will, yes. In my daughter's case, it gets harder and harder.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And, , it's not gonna get better, and the church has to be there for the long haul when the commitment's made. you can't abandon them when it gets hard.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The encouragement I would give to a family who's encountering disability for the first time with a newborn or a parent moving back in you know how disability crashes into life. There's an accident, and all of a sudden your teenager or your young adult is in need.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
The encouragement will be this. God will teach you things in ways you'd least expect. God doesn't do things the way we expect, and He doesn't use the people we'd expect, and you will be blessed. I tell a story in my book 'cause I worked with Young Life years ago, and I love Young Life. 25 or 30 years ago, a guy in Young Life started a, a club for disabled kids.
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And he recruited able-bodied high school kids to come along as the buddies. That particular program in Young Life was called Capernaum, and the Capernaum program is blowing the roof off of Young Life internationally. Because guess who gets changed? It's the able-bodied kids who come alongside the disabled kids. Who testify consistently, "My life is different now."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Because I came alongside this kid with CP," or, "I've come alongside and become a buddy to this kid with autism." They're the ones that are changed. And so the encouragement I would give, as hard as it might be, as long as the road might look, God is going to change you in a way that's a blessing. It doesn't make any sense. It's completely counter to the world's strategy.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
But I've seen this true over and over and over again.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah that is so great, and that's not the first time I've heard that in the last couple weeks. You gotta rub elbows and It changes you. That's a great, encouragement.
Caregiver suicide risk isn't just about the caregiving role itself, but also related to caregiver burden and stress, depression and anxiety, isolation and lack of support, financial or health strain, and length and intensity of care responsibilities. These are common factors among family caregivers, that are known to elevate suicide risk So with that said, how can churches better support long-term caregivers in practical ways?
Dr. Michael Beates:
That's a big question.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I would hope that, um, that suicide rate is among those who have no hope. We grieve loss and brokenness, but not as those who have no hope, Paul said.
Stephanie Daniels:
Amen.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And when you have no hope, and when there is not a sense of "God is in this," and "God is sovereign, and God has His hand on me and I'm His child," without that, yeah, suicide's a pretty good option. We're seeing this in Canada right now, aren't we, with the, uh, medical assistance in dying. There are people who, if you're a naturalist, if you believe in evolution, we're just animals, and what do we do with our animals when they're in pain? We put them down.
Stephanie Daniels:
Euthanize.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And that's what they're doing. They're just putting people down. But we believe that God gives us life, and we believe God ordains our days. We don't take our life. God is the one who numbers our days and knows when we go home.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
And so we live with that. We live in that state of expectation and hope, even in the midst of depression and health failures and lack of support.
And so what can the church do? They can come alongside. That's what the church has to do. Even if it's just having people stop in. You know, a church could have a team of people, and they stop in, one person a day, 10 minutes.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Just to stop in and say, "Hello. How are you doing?" Be encouraged. Uh, here's a meal." those things do matter. They really do matter.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
I know that Joni and Friends, has a friend, it actually started here in Orlando, a group called, Nathaniel's Hope. Tim and Marie Cook started the ministry, named after their disabled son who died, and they've got a thing called Buddy Break, and they've gone national with this now. They go around the country training churches to offer a four-hour time slot on Saturdays...
Stephanie Daniels:
Mm.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Where families with disabilities , can leave their child in good care. No strings attached. And you can go do the shopping you need to do. You can go see a movie. You can just go home and take a nap. whatever you need to do, you can do. That's a way the church can come alongside.
Stephanie Daniels:
That's great.
Dr. Michael Beates:
A- and Nathaniel's Hope will come to a church and will train a church, and you enlist volunteers and you get qualified, and then your church can offer that to families.
Their thing is you bring your children to the church and they care for a bunch. But you could do a thing where you go to the home. here's the other thing I always tell people. Never tell people, and if your podcast, if the listeners are people who are in this situation, needing caregivers, you want people to say to you I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. what I tell churches never to say is, "Call me if you need me. Call if we can help."
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
They're not gonna call. I'm not gonna call. It's just one more call I gotta make. It's just one more opportunity to be shut down and, a- and one more obstacle.
I tell people, "Just show up." Just come to the door with a meal, or come to the door with a teenage son and say, "Hey, we're gonna mow your yard." just come and show up and do the work. And churches can do that like crazy. They've got manpower. They've got people who can just show up and help.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Even if it's just to say, "Hey, I'm gonna come and, and sometimes on the weekend we don't have care.
I'm gonna come and sit with your daughter for four hours. We'll just watch TV, right? There's nothing I need to do, nothing, you know. Any emergencies, I can call you. You guys get out for a little bit. Have some lunch somewhere. Do something." That would make all the difference in the world for families.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. And I like how you talk about coming alongside, cause it's making me think of just that community. It multiplies our joys and divides our sorrow.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Daniels:
When people just come in and, and sit with you, like you said, even if it's 10 minutes, check in, "Hey, how you doing?" And bring a Frosty or something just to let somebody know I'm thinking about you.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yep.
Stephanie Daniels:
It's powerful work and practical tips that we can actually do.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Yeah.
Stephanie Daniels:
Dr. Beates, would you just pray for our listeners that might find themself in a season of caregiving, and they're walking through the hard the heavy parts of it. would you just lift them up to the Lord?
Dr. Michael Beates:
Amen. Father, we are grateful that You are a God who knows. You're a God who sees.
You've heard our cries. You've come down in Jesus to make every promise yes and amen. But Lord, we know that we live in a fallen world, and sometimes it is just hard. So Lord, we pray that You would encourage all of our friends who might be listening, caregivers who are called to do something they never thought they'd have to do.
God, give us the grace, one day at a time, one hour at a time if need be, moment by moment, day by day. we need Your grace so desperately. And so we ask for it on behalf of ourselves and all who are listening, that You would be a gracious God who meets us at our point of despondency and need, at our point of, "I've got nothing left to give." Surprise us with more energy and more hope and more service. Strengthen our weak knees, we pray.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yes.
Dr. Michael Beates:
For Your glory and for the good of those we care for. And we ask this boldly in the name of Jesus. Amen.
Stephanie Daniels:
Amen. this conversation has just really been such a blessing, Mike, and I, I'm so thankful that you, joined us today and just brought all of your intelligence and your heart and passion, to this podcast to share with our listeners today.
And thank you for praying, for our friends, who find themself in this space. It has been a real joy and, I'm honored to sit with you today and just receive.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Well, Stephanie, I feel like it's one hiker helping another hiker limp along one more, day.
Stephanie Daniels:
Yeah. Well, we are thankful for you. How can people get in touch with you if they have a question or wanna connect?
Dr. Michael Beates:
I actually have a Facebook page for my book. The book is Disability and the Gospel, and I think the pa- Facebook page is just titled Disability and the Gospel. people could message me through that.
Stephanie Daniels:
Wonderful. Thank you again so much for joining us today. And friends, if you heard something in our conversation today that blessed you or touched your heart, please consider sharing this with a friend who you know may need to be encouraged as well. And if you have questions about any of the resources that we referenced in our talk today, please avail yourself to our show notes, and we'll see you next time.
Dr. Michael Beates:
Thank you, Stephanie.
Stephanie Daniels:
We hope this conversation touched your heart today. If it did, consider sharing it with someone who might be encouraged as well. And don’t forget to follow us on your favorite podcasting app so you never miss an episode. See you next week!
© Joni and Friends